Win Garand Receiver Weld Question w/pics

[Dr342]

Never heard of one blowing up. But op-rod track alignment can be an issue. Ive know of at least 2 chronic op-rod issues (jumping track) that after swapping several rods was determined to be a reweld. Too many nice ones out there for me, but each to thier own.

[Rick Cummelin]

OK, here's the history on "most" of the welded receivers we see now & again. Back in the late 50s/early 60s, the Gov't destroyed many thousands of totally worn-out m1s by cutting them in two with a torch and then cuttting the barrel in front of the chamber area. All the steel was sold as scrap and some enterprising folks (in California, as the story goes) bought the scrap and decided to build rifles. They built a basic jig to hold the halves, and if the halves matched up, they were welded together and then the welds were machined down to somewhat match the original contours and machining.

The barrel stubs--chamber areas--were drilled out, and a turned down '03A3 Springfield barrel was inserted in the stub and the two were silver-soldered together. A few years ago I turned down one that was offered to me for $200. Just not worth the liability if I sold it, and it didn't have $200 worth of parts in it.

The rifles were mostly WWII vintage and were re-assembled with parts from the aforementioned scrap bins. New wood was installed and the rifles were sold for around $100-150. My Dad bought me one in about 1963 or so (SA s/n 1165624). I fired lots of .06 through it and had headspacing issues requiring a new bolt to "fix" (to this day, I can't say it was safe or unsafe). My 2-groove '03A3 barrel was VERY inaccurate.

Here's the interesting part: To have PROPERLY welded these receivers together, they SHOULD have been totally re-heat treated after welding, but they were not, which explains all the weird shades of grey that usually appear when they are reparkerized. Theis means the welded areas were annealed (made soft) during the welding process. This is NOT a good thing, but so many of them are still out there being shot that their unsafeness may be overblown. That being said, once I discovered mine was a welded receiver (15 years later) it went down the road immediately.

Buying one for shooting COULD be a risk and/or a gamble, depending on your perspective. To me, I wouldn't ever touch one again--simply not worth the risk, IMHO.

[Mark in Rochester]

The key thing to check on a welded receiver is the firing pin protrusion. It is critical that the safety bridge with the firing pin retraction cam be properly located. If this critical dimension is not correct the possibility of an out of battery slam fire is increased.

as far as durability it would seem that the load is carried by the front of the receiver and would not be impacted by the weld

For me it is a risk without a reward - buy a CMP rifle and be safe

[RCS]

Back in the early 1970's some of these M1 receiver halfs were welded together a 1/2 inch shorter to accommodate the 7.62x51 cartridge for either en bloc or M14 magazine, work was excellent. The M1 carbines receiver halfs were also welded together too, sometimes you could find an M1 receiver with just one side of the receiver cut !

I heard that the probability of an out of battery accident is much higher with the receiver halfs welded together.

[zrunr]

I appreciate all the comments and background. There is no halo on this receiver so perhaps the heat treatment was done correctly. I don't see any markings on the barrel. This particular Garand is missing the 4 internal parts for some reason. What would a Garand in this condition be worth? The stock, op arm, trigger group, sights, gas block, bolt, firing pin etc. are all SA and are in very good condition. The barreled action could at least be used for a drill rifle or wall hanger.

What is the best course of action to take with this type of Garand? My goal is just to have a decent shooting Garand.

I also came across a Tanker Garand with a welded receiver done not quite as nicely as this full-size but otherwise in good condition. What would that be worth?

[Calif-Steve]

FedOrd in Southern Calif. sold many Tanker Garands, all welded rifles. I used to do the Great Western Show and saw many Tankers that would not run. Sold those guys lots of parts. No danger of them blowing up at all, but they seldom run right. To me, a Tanker is a pricey parts kit.

[Rick Cummelin]

I appreciate all the comments and background. There is no halo on this receiver so perhaps the heat treatment was done correctly. I don't see any markings on the barrel. This particular Garand is missing the 4 internal parts for some reason. What would a Garand in this condition be worth? The stock, op arm, trigger group, sights, gas block, bolt, firing pin etc. are all SA and are in very good condition. The barreled action could at least be used for a drill rifle or wall hanger.

What is the best course of action to take with this type of Garand? My goal is just to have a decent shooting Garand.

I also came across a Tanker Garand with a welded receiver done not quite as nicely as this full-size but otherwise in good condition. What would that be worth?

Your best course of action? Simple. RUN AWAY!!

What is ANY welded receiver worth? Absolutely NOTHING, but that's the wrong question. You need to ask: "What is my eyesight worth?" If you are unlucky & buy one that fails, what is it worth to you to be blind the rest of your life? As far as the internal parts are concerned, go back & re-read my earlier post. Unless they have been replaced over the years (due to problems), the parts also came from the scrap pile. Sure, they're refinished so they look OK, but their worth is minimal--maybe $50 for all the junk.

My recommendation--Stop looking at junk and buy a decent Service Grade M1 from the CMP.

[Griff Murphey]

It has been suggested that all of the M-1s scrapped were destroyed because they were worn out/unsafe etc. One day I was in Morgan's Gun shop on Jacksboro Highway in Fort Worth. This would have been about 1966. Four match M-1s (May have been NM rifles, or match conditioned regular rifles)were brought in, scrapped. All had been in immaculate condition. The bolts were locked to the rear, and each rifle was torch-cut across the receiver, the stocks sawed off at the pistol grips, then sold along with the other scrap from Carswell AFB.

So, logic does not always play into the whys and wherefores of the military.

I cannot vouch for their final disposition, but the "gunsmith" at Morgan's cut the weld off of the least-torched one, and fired it several times as a straight pull, unrestored, which I thought was interesting.

[xroads]

one of the boys at my local club asked me to look at a garand that he had purchased up in a vermont general store. it was very nice looking, (good overall finish, decent stock) and was an "international springfield", the rear half sa and the front half international. it also sported a unique m1 "two groove barrel" (via a ww2 1903a3), on which someone had forgotten to mill the recess for the cross-pin. for a finishing touch, it had an "unmarked" trigger housing, which turned out to be a very nice casting. this is the first time i had seen all three at the same time. i was able to get the m1 "corrected" with all proper parts, but it would have been considerably less expensive to have purchased through the CMP.

[zrunr]

one of the boys at my local club asked me to look at a garand that he had purchased up in a vermont general store. it was very nice looking, (good overall finish, decent stock) and was an "international springfield", the rear half sa and the front half international. it also sported a unique m1 "two groove barrel" (via a ww2 1903a3), on which someone had forgotten to mill the recess for the cross-pin. for a finishing touch, it had an "unmarked" trigger housing, which turned out to be a very nice casting. this is the first time i had seen all three at the same time. i was able to get the m1 "corrected" with all proper parts, but it would have been considerably less expensive to have purchased through the CMP.

Interesting story. There must be a bunch of these "unique" Garand clones out there. How much did the corrections cost and how was the hybrid receiver dealt in this case?