Condition of Milsurps you prefer ??

[paulm]

No RJ I would tend to think that wear in the stock, bore, overall condition does in fact tell the story. Take the enfields Most at one time used corrosive ammo and that leaves it's mark on the bore. My Mark 1 303 doesn't have a bright shiney bore but she still fires The same goes for my 1917 the bore is dark but she still fires Both rifles are accurate. As a matter of fact one of the guys in my club is a C&R like myself and looked at the 1917 and said this " she was in Europe Paul" He collects Enfields and offered me an AK 47 for it I asked him to consider his Garand, or M1 Carbine for it No such Luck. Nowhere's something I am still trying to fathom . I have a 91/39 Mosin long rifle Looking at it you would think that it was new. Like all Mosins the stock looks in excellent condition, as does the metal The bore is bright and shiny I bought her for $100.00. She's a Tula and has seen action on the Eastern Front. I'll tell you RJ I cannot see buying a rifle that is only for show. I like to fire my collection I like to hunt with them. I attached pics of the three rifles I am talking about. This is not the whole collection however

[kjohn]

Great thread! I have 100+ military surplus rifles. I have been buying since 1965. Over the years, I have purchased "in the wrap" Lee Enfields, dragged behind a tank Mosin Nagants and everything in between. I appreciate what others prefer, whether it be only pristine, only battle-experienced, or whatever. I collect my rifles according to my own standards. I have been very fortunate to have gathered some real gems. Present and future dollar value, history, general appearance and condition, personal likes and dislikes, are some of the aspects of collecting that sometimes affect my decisions. Most I have fired, or would fire. A few I wouldn't.

In other words, my collecting wouldn't necessarily make sense to the next person. I have seen some "sleepers" of military surplus rifles come awake, and I have been lucky to snag a few. Each to our own.

[paulm]

KJohn Right now I have five. The three you see there plus my Carcano, and the Martini Shotgun. I want to add one European/Eastern european Semi auto. Right now I am leaning toward the AK47, or the FN With the exception of the US Enfield M1917 the rest of my collection is European.There is a pending trade in place right now. If it takes place I will not have an American rifle in my collection afterwards. This will sound strange coming from someone like myself who spent his life in the Army, but everytime I speak my mind on the subject I get peoples dander up It all concerns the Garand so better to leave dead dogs buried. I get on my soap box and after that folks don't want to talk to me any more I may increase the size of my collection by perhaps 2 more C&Rs

[TDH]

Paulm you can't go wrong with an AK. Don't expect great accuracy but they can be made to shoot extremely well. I have a friend that if he is not shooting nickle sized groups at 100 he is not a happy man.

That said back to the subject. I have a few Milsurps. The 03 was rebarreled in 1918 so probably saw action in WW1. The Carbine is a 43 with a strong possibility of having seen action. The 03A3 is 43 as well. Did it see action or not. Possible but not very probable. The M1 is a 55 H&R so probably not. I do have a M1 Tanker from Arlington Ordinance that has a 43 or 44 receiver. Another that is a Frankenrifle that has an M1 receiver either 43 or 44. Whatever that other one didn't have.
I am of a mind that if you got it shoot it. Collectors and rich people have tools they don't use. More power to them. All my firearms have a niche in my way of thinking whether they be handguns rifles or shotguns. A few just came along at the right time. Like the Walther P-38. It has the Nazi proof marks and the frame and barrel match but I can find no proof marks on the slide. It seems to have a black enamel finish. It shoots good.

[Dr342]

This is a great thread. I prefer my Mil-Surps to have character, used but not abused. I dont do the old dishwasher stock cleaning etc, I leave them all as I recieved them. I tend to purchase non-import marked well used rifles that I can shoot.

[Johnny Peppers]

The problem with a lot of U.S. firearms having that "been there, done that" look is that it may have all occurred in Bubba's pickup truck. Certainly no added value or interest can be added for something that has bounced around as a truck gun since it left the military.
Just because a military firearm isn't beat up and rusty doesn't mean it doesn't have history. This US&S is documented through SRS as having been issued to the commanding officer of the LCI (L) 780 in April of 1945. It was produced in June of 1943, so it was somewhere in the military for almost two years before being issued to Commander Robison.
Pay your hard earned money for what it is and not what it might have been.

[Soulcrusher]

I would like to own examples of both mint unissued mil-surps and shooter but right now I can only afford the shooters so thats what I have. I have a couple of Russian refurbished rifles that are in very nice shape like my M38 carbine but all of my Enfields have there share of bruises on the wood and worn bluing. You can just see the rifle in service looking just like it does. I only buy rifles with bores that rate at least VG. I shoot everything and to me if a rifle can not shoot accurately it is not worth owning. Mabye some day when I'm rich I will have the funds to own rilfes that are just pure collectable but for right now a strong bore is all I see and not a dinged up stock.


Michael

[kjohn]

paulm: I will be the last one to stick my nose up in the air over whatever rings your bell. Good on you for following your tastes. As I said in my post above, my "collecting" doesn't take any straight road. I like old .22's, military rifles and handguns, shotguns, whatever suits me at the moment. Enjoy your stuff. A dear old friend who shared a love for guns passed away last year. I will end up with some of his guns and will be involved in selling the rest. Whenever I take up a rifle that he owned, I can see him in my mind's eye, grinning with that proud grin. He used to come to my place and we would go down to my gun room. He would always ask me to pass him the Hoppe's No. 9 bottle so he could take a whiff. As you already know, there is a lot more to "collecting" than just... collecting!

[Harlan (Deceased)]

There’s definitely no wrong or right about this, but I have to agree completely with Johnny on this one.

I have a very tight budget (Family, mortgage, etc, etc)
I have always saved money in a fund until I had enough to buy the nicest milsurps I can find. My salary went directly into the ‘family checking account’ to pay the bills, but I have done outside work and eBay junk to provide funds for my addiction, so I don’t feel like I’m taking money from the family funds. It takes a long while, but I saved the trickle of cash I made and actually kept it in my gun safe until it added up.

I don’t have a huge collection, but all of my guns are in at least ‘nice' condition.


I found a 1903A3 at the first Carbine Show at Birmingham Alabama that looked like it never left the gun rack. (I went to the show looking to buy a carbine!)
A real expert (Don W) checked it out for me when I got back to Dallas and it turned out to be in almost new condition and never even taken apart. He began to take it apart and then stopped because he said he didn’t want to take a chance of ‘buggering’ a screw head or something. (No wear on muzzle, etc)
Heck, I’m happy to have one ‘safe queen’ in my small collection.


For me, the search for a nice original gun in good condition and bickering (begging) for a deal is a great deal of the fun.
Doing research and learning all I can about a type of gun before plunking down hard earned cash is also part of the fun to me.
I have books about each type of gun I’ve been interested in and enjoy studying them to learn everything I can.
I have most all of the books Bruce Canfield has written, and also have the ‘required’ but boring books with the hundreds of pages of detailed markings, codes, etc.
I really enjoy Mr. Canfield’s writing style, and wit. He has a way of providing technical and collectible information in an interesting style that makes the reading fun.

I’ve also tremendously enjoyed meeting (and learning from) fellow collectors; in person and via web sites like this one.
I’ve been amazed how nice and helpful most of the real experts are. The passion about these old guns is almost contagious.

Just for the record, Bruce Canfield is one of the nicest, most helpful, and humble gentlemen I’ve ever ‘met’.
I was looking at a Remington ‘military’ shotgun a few years ago, but couldn’t find much information anywhere about it. Bruce Canfield mentioned it briefly in his book ‘Combat Shotguns’ so I took a chance and sent him an email. He responded quickly with a personable email and provided detailed info about the gun, and told me where to look for serial numbers, etc.
As it turned out, the shotgun was a training shotgun used for training machine gunners –
Mr. Canfield explained how the Army tried to train gunners by shooting skeet; sometimes from a moving truck.
They were never used in combat, but this one turned out to be 100% so I bought it.






We do shoot the guns in our (my son’s) collection, but honestly I feel a responsibility to take very good care of them.




I do have a couple of real wall hangers, and a demilled Thompson’
I guess, I just like to collect some guns only to serve as an example of a ‘type’

]



Usually when we go out shooting for fun, we just use guns I have that aren’t collectibles.
It’s fun (and inexpensive) to shoot the snot out of .22’s



Anyway, I guess I felt kind of bad after reading this thread because I like to have guns in nice condition, but we all collect in our own way.

Heck, there’s no real rhyme or reason to what I’ve saved up hard earned cash to purchase–
(Other than I think I felt like life was too short to shoot an ugly gun!)



~ Harlan

[lee sherman]

OK, my 2 cents worth. Life is too short for an ugly firearm some folks say. I agree to a point. I have restored Mosins, a Swiss K-31, Yugo 24/47, Yugo SKS and a few others. Not way overdone but clean and nice. All shooters which I actually shoot on occasion. My Type 99 Arisaka is as the day it headed East on a troop ship bound for San Francisco post V-J day. The rifle appears unissued except for a ding 1/2 long under the forewood. A real creampuff! I've put 60 rounds thru it with A-1 results. My M-1 Garand is all USGI 3.6 Million and has of course been rearsenaled at least once, somewhere. Original stock with 2 filled holes where the grenade launcher site was mounted. These are not just guns, they are surviving examples of history. No permanent modifications ever. I enjoy them for what they are. They are not expensive artifacts that cannot be used for what they were intended to do. I don't collect rust or demilled guns. Some I restore and some I do not. But I cherish all of them for reasons which I have described. Collect, restore, shoot, study, learn as much as possible from it. For me it is a religion, and my collector friends all agree to that!! Long live Mil-surp firearms!!.