I would like to restore a gun. Help

[drgoose]

Hello, I have been lurking around for a while and I find it SO COOL what some of you guys are able to do with rifles that are caked in gunk and look like a stampede of yaks walked on them. I would like to learn how to do this so I am looking for a cheap rifle to learn on.

I would like to end up with a shooter at the end of the day and if possible try to avoid having to form my own cases from shotgun shells.

Any recomendations regarding which rifle to tackle as a first project?
Would a Gahendra or a Brunswick from IMA be a good option?

Thanks in advance

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[Patrick Chadwick]

I would like to restore a gun. Help
... I would like to learn how to do this so I am looking for a cheap rifle to learn on... I would like to end up with a shooter at the end of the day and if possible try to avoid having to form my own cases from shotgun shells.

Any recomendations regarding which rifle to tackle as a first project?
Would a Gahendra or a Brunswick from IMA be a good option?

Thanks in advance

I cannot make any comment on IMA, but I may be able to advise you on how to get started.
Firstly, recognise that, as a beginner, you cannot be sure that what you start out on is going to turn out well. You are going to learn, and that means that what you can tackle in a year's time will be considerably more advanced than what you can tackle right now. And when you have gained some experience, you will be able to make a more accurate evaluation the next time. So start off with an object at a wall-hanger price, and you will not be disappointed!

The whole procedure, from looking for something to firing it at the range may be divided roughly into "care & feeding" as follows:
1) Evaluation and acquisition.
2) Disassembly and further evaluation.
3) Refurbishment.
4) Creating ammunition.
5) Firing.

1) to 3) are the "care" part of the procedure.
4) and 5) concern the "feeding" of your refurbished treasure. Problems can arise here that should be considered in connection with 1) i.e. before you buy anything!

For instance, although I would love to fire one, I have twice passed up on buying an M1887 Turkish Mauser. I have an M1871 Mauser and even an M1879 Grenzaufsehergewehr, which most people have never heard of. So why pass over a BPCR in a moderate caliber?

The answer lies in the caliber. 9.5x60R sounds like a reasonably sized bullet compared with almost all other BPCRs. But you will not be able to buy such bullets - or moulds - or cases - or dies.

So you will need everything custom-made. Someone may write in and point out that it is all available somewhere, and they will be right.
The problem is, it would be excruciatingly expensive.
And that is the major point to be considered - the feeding of obsolete BPCRs can cost more than a usable rifle! So I would NOT recommend a Martin-Henry or Gahendra as a starter.

As you wrote "I would like to end up with a shooter at the end of the day and if possible try to avoid having to form my own cases from shotgun shells." Well, with a Martini or Gahendra, it's that or spend a lot of money!

The best starter is some kind of percussion rifle. You can buy round balls in a wide range of sizes, and even a custom-size round-ball mould would not be the end of the financial world. The flexibility afforded by varying patch thickness means that just about any percussion rifle can be made to shoot again, and if the rifling is thin to non-existent, then use it as a shotgun - which was anyway the major civilian usage for a lot of old flintlock and percussion rifles when they had reached the end of their useful service life.

Furthermore, percussion rifles can be refurbished without the precision problems that can arise with cartridge rifles. It is possible to hand-carve a hammer, or repair an old one, but not a bolt (well, not unless you follow the "Khyber Pass" school of gunsmithing).

I would advise you to read right through three threads before doing anything.
The first thread is in the "Restorer's Corner" forum. Look for "Argentino M1879 Rolling Block". This supports my thesis that, if it's cheap enough, you can try anything that appears to be complete.

The second thread is in this forum, entitled "Found Musket in thrift store". As you will see, it looked like scrap and turned out to be a very interesting old percussion rifle.

The third thread is on the same forum: "IMA Brunswick rifle - a restoration thread". This illustrates what a master can do with a wreck.

Summarizing:
1) Read the threads before buying anything!
2) Don't spend more than you could afford to waste on a wall-hanger.
3) Go for a percussion rifle (or flintlock) as a first choice.
4) Read the threads again before tackling your acquisition!

and finally

5) Post pictures and ask questions on these forums if you are unsure what to do next

Good luck!

[drgoose]

Thank you

[vintage hunter]

Patrick, well said. drgoose, I don't know what your background is or skill levels are but unless you're up there with McGyver or Doug Turnbull leave the I.M.A. stuff alone. I;ve seen some of it and it's pure junk. Dixie Gun Works sells percussion and flintlock rifle, pistol & shotgun kits of various prices and skill levels. This might be a good way to figure out if you have the knack for it and what your strengths and weaknesses are. When it comes to restoring firearms one has to equally good with metal, wood and finish work or the end result will be dissapointing. Not everyone is good at all things but you never know till you try. By trade, I'm a Millwright/Welder. I have a natural talent for working with metal but never was worth flip with wood. Start small and work your way up. Don't get discouraged, learn from your mistakes and try again. And whatever you do, don't get in a hurry, that'll just lead to a great big screw-up pile under the tarp in the corner of your shop. There's a forum on restoring old milsurps on down that will be helpful to you. Check it out. Good luck.

[jamie5070]

There really isn't a problem with the IMA guns. You get what you pay for. My first purchase from them was a MKIV. I reasoned that they were some of the last produced and shipped out to india. What I got was a rifle with about 85% bluing, 100+ years of dents in the wood, and about mint internally. For an exersice in restoration I bought an as found condition francotte model. It needs a lot of wood work and will not be a shooter when done. The bore is extremely pitted. The francottes and gehendra rifles were locally made and have had the most neglect. People are reporting that the gehendras are in the best shape of the two. If someone wants a shooter than the untouched unmarked MKII rifles or the MKIV rifles are the way to go. Then there is the cost of shooting a martini. Brass is costly and you need a larger press to handle the larger dies if you full length resize your cases. I only crimp the bullets using a pistol die, but I am only shooting one martini at the moment.
If you want a neat looking wall hanger than try them. If you want more info on those rifles and peoples experiances with them, post on the martini section.
john