Where is my thread?

[USGI]

I forwarded Harlan that email about 45 minutes ago - bet he's working on it right now! - Bob

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Thank you USGI -

Heck, it wasn't that great of a post and now I fear that it won't live up to the expectation!
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As a lead in, Bubba7's now missing response to IRM's beginning topic told his personal story of problems with fake carbine parts, and his having been taken by people selling him fake parts...
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I started here:

I agree with Bubba7 about the repro parts, and wanted to add some personal experience about the functionality of said parts.

Also this has nothing to do with your intentions IRM.
If you just want to use some repro T1 parts for the experience that's fine. I was the same way.
I only wanted to relate my own personal situation and my thoughts about these fake carbine parts after my experience with them.

I apologize that this is going to be long and actually I didn’t want to take the time to write all of it, but now I think its worth it even if it's only for the safety aspect of these reproduction parts and not the moral issue.

A few years ago my son got into WWII USGI re-enacting. Not going out and doing the camping and all that playing soldier stuff; just the living impressions to help educate people about WWI and hopefully they'd become interested in what happened in WWII. I was active in the CAF and he and I attended a lot of air shows together. One of the other CAF members was also into re-enacting as well as helping with aircraft and several members began dressing up as GIs, bringing restored jeeps etc to the shows and it really added to the displays while the planes were sitting static before flying in the afternoon. Air show visitors really loved seeing all of the vintage uniforms and jeeps along with the planes. Sometimes they’d have an ‘Enemy’ aircraft (T-6 Texas marked like a Zero) fly over them during the flying part of the show and they’d fire blanks at him and he’d turn the smoke on to look like they ‘hit’ him. The impressions added to visitor interest, and we were able to tell the story of the greatest generation even better.

*You wouldn’t believe how many college kids don’t know a single thing about WWII, who our allies were, much less the sacrifices our fathers and grandfathers did to preserve our now taken for granted freedoms. The few people that did know about the war thought of WWII as if it was ancient history not relevant to the world today. When we’d tell the story of our planes parked on the tarmac, many would ask how we got them to the airport. Seeing the planes come to life and fly really did show many people that WWII wasn’t that long ago, or just something they see on the History channel. (I’m making myself stop here. I could go on for hours about this) –
When I first began going to air shows as part of the air crew and giving tours of our C47 to people in their 30s, I found many who thought Japan was our ally during the war, etc, etc, etc and I was completely dumbfounded!

My son loved going to the shows too, but there wasn’t a lot he could do to be involved, and he wanted to be. He knew all about WWII, and WWII weapons, and the planes and their history since had practically grown up around them, but few people would pay much attention to him because he just looked like a 14 year old kid sitting in the shade under a wing. I was usually busy with the aircraft (something was almost always broke, or just regular checks and routines, along with talking to visitors and telling ‘The Story’) My buddy first gave my son an M1 helmet to wear at one show, and let him fire blanks at the enemy planes strafing, and it took off for him from there.




Soon after that, I started putting together a complete outfit for him with all the correct vintage web gear and he became a part of our show.
(He had been playing Xbox WWII games for years and he knew exactly what the gear and weapons were called and supposed to look like)
Since he was part of the show team (Almost our mascot), he was able to help us talk to all of the visitors and they’d pay attention and listen to him.
(He had the time of his life!)

Below is a photo I took one day just before we headed to an annual function at our local CAF unit that was free to the public and they could walk around and see the aircraft up close and we would tell The Story of the planes and WWII.
I thought this was kind of a funny photo. He had just called his mom on his cell phone to tell her we were about to leave for the show.
(He always kept his cell phone tucked away in a cartridge pocket on his belt during exhibitions, but this was a funny contrast in times)



OK now the FAKE PARTS section, if anyone has read this far
I only wanted to explain the situation. I hear too many people putting down re-enactors lately, but many, or I’d say most people go through the work and expense to do it to better educate people who know nothing about WWII and a living portrayal really does help make them realize that WWII was not so long ago, and it really did happen. It was the same when people would see living, breathing, and flying WWII aircraft come to life. I’ve seen people who knew little or nothing about WWII become enthusiasts and start learning all they could just because they saw WWII planes fly for the first time.

*THE CARBINE*

When my son was 15 he saw a carbine in a local pawn shop and fell in love with it. It was a pretty used and abused Blue Sky import (with their typical crater stamp and poor repark) It was an Inland mixmaster with all the rebuild features and someone had put into an old Italian M1A1 repro stock. He wanted it very much so he would have a WWII vintage weapon of his own to carry at re-enactments. I knew the local pawn shop owner fairly well (don’t we all) and I had bought several old guns from him. He gave me a very fair price on the carbine so I bought it for my son as his Christmas present that year.
He was thrilled!

He knew that WWII carbines didn’t have bayonet lugs, etc. I thought about it, and since the carbine had little value and he wasn’t going shoot it and only use it as a prop, Id just get some repro parts and fix his carbine up to look period correct for his prop.
(We were even thinking about setting it up to shoot blanks eventually)

I’ve never even considered owning a repro part before, but figured they’d be perfect for this application, and I would never sell it anyway. (How many times have you heard that?) I’d seen a well known dealer who had been selling reproduction Type 1 carbine parts singly for a fair price and he was describing them as reproduction on eBay and Gunbroker, so I contacted him and told him I wanted a repro T1 sight, barrel band, and safety and he gave me a good fair price on them and shipped them together.

*THE PARTS ARRIVE*

First of all, I want to say that I don’t blame the seller at all -
I bought repro parts from him as what they were, and none of this is his fault.
These parts come from God knows where, and built to tolerances they make up themselves, and they could change from one batch to the next.

The parts arrive in about three days and I’m ready to go.
The first thing I noticed when I opened the bag was the awful appearance of their finish. I had never seen repro parts in person before and had only seen photos. When you see them in person all the surfaces are smooth, and the band almost had a shiny blackish looking finish and the metal band would be best described a looking ‘tinny’.
As far as the appearance of the parts, the band looked the worse. On top of the shiny, tinny metal, the swivel screw had nothing like the distinctive head of an original. The newly made rear sight looked in the white with and the spring plate was a thicker material than originals and had a blackish finish similar to the barrel band’s finish. (Not blue)

*THE SIGHT*

Though it looked like the brand new part it was, it at least installed OK. The T3 sight that was on it came off with little problem. The repro was loose when I put it in the dovetail and it slid to center by pushing it with my thumb. The dove tail already had crater size stake marks and it wasn’t going to hurt the appearance anyway so I staked it in place.
There, let’s take a look at it....
Sitting up there with it's bright finish and nice slick textured surfaces in contrast to the old dull darkly parkerized receiver, it looked as nice as any turd would look floating in a punchbowl.
I broke out the trusty old cold blue and coated the 'dam' thing so it at least looked dark.

*THE BARREL BAND*

The bands screw head was shaped nothing at all like the uniquely shaped original does, but I had an extra authentic screw I could use so it would look a little more authentic. I took the new screw out and tried top install the authentic screw in its place but the threads in the repro band were not the same at all. I think they were metric! (UHG!)
OK, we were stuck with the wrong looking screw, but I just couldn’t handle the shiny black finish so I stripped the blue off, doused it with cold blue and let it dry to a dull gray.
Then fake barrel band surprise number two –
It didn’t fit worth a crap. I have authentic T1 bands, and though they’re not the greatest, this was just wrong. It was so loose it wanted to walk off the end of the hand guard. After much cussing and time spent, I reformed it until it kind of fit a little more snug. Certainly not what Id leave on a carbine I was going to shoot, but we were ‘never going to shoot it’ anyway.

*THE SAFETY*

It was in the white, but looked OK. Unmarked and would fit the bill for at least looking right and get rid of the flip safety. I figured the safety would finally be the easy part. I installed it without any issues and thought I was done. The rifle looked good enough for a 'prop'. Then I tested the safety for function and it started binding when you put it to the "safe" position. Lube didn’t help. It would work OK for a bit and then bind again. It would get almost home to "safe" but not click into place, and the hammer would still fall!
I disassemble it, greased it, and polished it twice and it worked better, but hung up again after I thought it was finally working.
This, I couldn’t take. Of all things on a gun to have less than correct, a safety has to be right.

These repro parts are just cheap copies made with no accountability and not made to exact USGI tolerances. USGI parts were kept to proper standards and the manufactures were held to such accountability they were required to mark each of their parts so that if they fell out of standards the parts could be, and would be traced back if they didn’t make them to standards. These repro makers aren’t held to any standards and they’re not accountable.

It made me stop and wonder about all the thousands of fake T1 safeties there are that are out there out on carbines only because they make the carbine 'correct', or even just to make it look ‘cool’.

I knew we would "never actually shoot the gun" but I thought about what if my son might have live ammo in it someday after I’m dead and gone, so I removed the fake safety and actually threw it in the trash. I didn't want to let anyone have it, or even try to make it function.
I re-installed the original arsenal replaced flip safety and worked flawlessly.

Back to “I’ll never sell it,” and “We’ll never fire it anyway” so there won’t be an issue as far as installing fake parts made by people who are only concerned with making a part that appears passable as real in appearance with no concern as far as actual functionality -

Sad personal story, but I filed for divorce a couple of years later and this faked, prop carbine was pawned and gone in the melee.
We both did things that were wrong, and it's history now, but not the real point -
The point for me was, things happen that we can’t foresee or plan. I could have a heart attack and die tomorrow and my guns would be sold or given to someone, then sold to another. Regardless, I’ll never shrug off anything and use one of these fake carbine parts that have flooded the market for no better reason than I want it to look cool, and then excuse doing so because I will never sell it.

It's fake as a three dollar bill and shouldn't fool anyone, but who knows who could lose out. Someone will spend money, and even if they pay what it’s really worth they'll shoot it and wonder why the hand guard keeps flying off, or it won’t hit the inside of a barn. It still bothers me. No, I would have never sold it, but its out in circulation someplace. I think of this every time I read or hear someone say they don’t mind installing fake parts because it’s just for them and they’ll never sell it. Never is a long time. All of our guns will belong to someone else someday.

God, I’m glad I put that original safety back in it!

[bearhunter]

He looks like he's having a ball. Good for you to have included him from such a young age. To many youngsters just don't have such enviable options.

I have a six year old grandson that is getting a good introduction to handling firearms as well. He knows how it feels to be looked down on because of his age. In some cases it is a good thing but some people carry their disdain to far. Most just encourage him. Your son will have a great basis to look back on and maybe even be in a position to carry on the tradition.
This fall, at one of the local gun shows, he came along to help. While he was at the show, I introduced him to several exhibitors and he learned the importance of shaking hands. At first he was shy and thought I was teaching him something wrong. Public school brainwashing about touching people. I was grateful that the adults there were so accommodating. His self esteem went up in feet, not inches and he beamed out a sunny smile much like the one on your son's face. It's good for them to get used to the public without shyness or fear but still show respect.

Well done to both of you.