Mukden Mauser Type 13

[m4a3sherman]

Hello all, I am pretty new to the site but have been following along various topics for a while now and have found lots of information on things here and there within these forums. So, at the behest of a buddy of mine (who is also a member on here) I have finally joined and I have some questions, starting with a new acquisition of mine.

I have bought a Type 13 Mukden Mauser and apart from the little paragraph of information available in the "Mauser Military Rifles of the World" book, I have come up short on knowledge about these rifles. I've actually only ever seen one or two others for sale before and apart from this one, never in the flesh. So, what I have discerned is that they are pretty scarce in the US and typically bring a pretty penny if properly identified. Mine is in about 80% plus condition with all matching numbers, cleaning rod and no dust cover. Any information about possible value and further information regarding its construction and importation would be great. As I said, I have a general bit of knowledge about these in terms of their origin and purpose but always want to know more. Additionally, if there is any information regarding date of manufacture based on perhaps serial numbers, I would love to know. Thanks guys! I'll post pics later.

Information

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[jon_norstog]

Sherman,

Chinese Mausers are a world to themselves. Mukden was supposedly the most modern arsenal in China and seizing it was a Japanese objective when they ran up the "Mukden Incident" in 1931 and took over Manchuria. Thereafter the arsenal produced Arisakas and Nambus.

I don't knoiw if there are Chinese gun collectors, but if there are they might pay up for your rifle. Meanwhile you're the only kid on the block with one.

jn

[Calif-Steve]

Actually, I think the Japanese built Mukden into what is it today (Norinco). The Japanese built many dams in North Korea in order to bring electricty into Mukden. These dams still power Mukden to this day. There were many arsenals in WWII that produced M98's before, during and after WWII. A photo or two will help. Something like 15 years back a huge dump (300,000) Mausers/03's and etc. were imported from China. Your rifle likely stems from that import.

[m4a3sherman]

OK, So it took a while to get time to take photographs but I finally managed!











Having been inside this one now, I can stress that all numbers match even down to the hand-penciled numbers inside the stock and handguard. Additionally, I would rate this rifle a little higher than 80%, maybe 90% or so, having gone through it now. It is a very interesting piece and I want to comment that I did not know Mukden became Norinco; that's rather nifty, thanks Calif-Steve. It sounds like Mukden might have been, by the end of the war, one of the most advanced Arsenals in mainland Asia.

[jon_norstog]

Cool! That looks like the Norinco logo on the receiver crest. I would have never known.

Not to dispute, and I'm sre the Japanese pt in some improvements, but Mukden was a state-of-the-art arsenal when it was put together by the Chinese. There is quite a story there, with larger-than-life characters.

jn

[m4a3sherman]

Hey, it does kind of resemble the Norinco logo; good eye Jon. I have been able to find relatively little on Mukden in the way of books or articles... This seems to be the case with much of the firearms history of Asia; even the Arisaka isn't as well written about as say the Lee-Enfield or Mauser though Millions of Arisakas were produced concurrently to the SMLE... If any of you guys know of a good resource, point the way!

[Calif-Steve]

The Japanese gained certain territorial rights from Russia in 1905 after the end of the Japanese-Russo War. They didn't get Manchuria, as it was in China, but did get railroad rights and controlled the Manchurian railroad. This, of course, led to all sorts of friction. Whoever built a modern arsenal in Manchuria prior to 1930 almost certainly built it with Japanese help. They had the money and technical know how. After the Japanese invaded Manchuria they set up the last Emperor of China as the Emperor of Manchuko, a puppet state. The Japanese then began a huge building effort and poured tons of money into Manchuko. It produced 6.5mm Japanese rifles and 8mm Chinese Mausers. That Type 13 Mukden Mauser was a superior design and an very nice find. By the way the plant is called Norinco and I do not believe American tourists are allowed in the city.

[m4a3sherman]

Now that One thinks about it, is Mukden, now Norinco, the only serious Asian arsenal in business? I'm sure there are various and sundry auxiliary facilities operating but I cannot place bay of them to name or significant contribution.

In terms of the T13 itself, does anyone have a feel for production estimates? Additionally, what is the ratio of those with m1898 H style forward bands to the Siamese Mauser style band and bayonet boss? Beyond that, isn't there a carbine model of this rifle as well?

[Groupie]

There was also a varation that used the more conventional larger front band sometimes called the H band rather than the smaller short one you have . I have the H band and would like to have the shorter smaller front band model also

[m4a3sherman]

Yes, I've seen the H band type before as well, but I have yet to see another Mukden of any flavor up for sale since I got mine. I'd love to see one so I could get a feel for how much they are bringing now. Last one I saw went for $2000 and was the smaller front band I 'THINK.' Does yours have the dust cover present? Also, do you have a Bayonet for yours? I just stumbled across one a few weeks ago and picked it up for $200.