Bitsa's - What to do with them?

[jss]

Made up, put together from bits totally un-collectable (or are they)Lee Enfield Rifles. What should we do with them?.
I now have two possibly three of these rifles and in order to keep them I have to shoot them at least 3 times a year each. What should I do with them?.

1)Dismantle them again, keep the spares that the law allows and give the restricted pressure bearing parts to a Registered Firearms dealer to use or dispose of?.
2) Keep them, improve them, modify and shoot them while allowing the preservation of the more collectable ones (for others to collect and make a profit on)?.
3) De-Activate them, make a profit and find some collectable ones?. (Not really an option!)
4)Sell them on .......

What do you do with the bitsa's you get stuck with?

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[dieppe42]

I'd be interested in hearing from others in different parts of the world what type of gun laws/restrictions/prohibs are on the books in their respective countries. While Canada has it's share of nonsensical laws, it sounds like we are more fortunate than most. Thanks for your post jss, it's got me to thinking !

[Patrick Chadwick]

There's (almost) no such thing as uncollectable when it comes to man-made objects. Looking at the prices achieved in online auctions, it seems that the average bitsa is worth less than the sum of its parts. Sights, woodwork, buttplates, magazines, trigger guards etc - in short all the non-restricted components - can quite possibly be sold for more than you would get for the complete object. Because you are selling parts to some poor character who is absolutely up the well-known creek without a paddle if he does not get that part (about the most expensive way of getting a rifle is to buy a bitsa or a sporter with the idea that it will be no problem to put it back into its original configuration).

Regulations, time and space limitations, and economics, all say: part out the duds, hand over the restricted bits to a registered dealer, get them off your ticket, and sell the unrestricted parts online.

Patrick

[Patrick Chadwick]

Here in Mauserland one can only purchase 2 long guns in half a year. Then there is a compulsory wait of another half a year before you can buy another. And you have to shoot them all to prove that you have a legitimate (sporting) need. So when I go to the range, I usually take more than one with me, to keep up the demonstrable training usage as recorded in my shooting book, each entry signed and stamped by the range officer.

As a result, one is reluctant to pick up any "strays looking for a good home", because when you have just used up your "2 in 6 months" allowance, Murphy's Law guarantees that the very next week you are going to find an amazing example of a type you have always wanted at a very favorable price! Tough!

But the positive side of this is that it forces you to think "Do I really want it.? And if I had it, would I really shoot it". It really puts the brakes on collecting for its own sake. And when I read of people in other countries stashing away hundreds of rifles, with multiple examples of the same type, with neither time nor inclination to shoot them, but merely the "dog in the manger" effect of preventing someone else (like me???) from being able to shoot one at all, while they post whining contributions about scarcity and increasing prices, well then I think - maybe a brake on sheer collecting isn't such a bad thing.

Think on't you hoarders who proudly boast that you have 99 No. 4Ts in the cellar. Are you 99 times a better shot than everybody else? Or have you merely prevented 98 others from having one?

Patrick

[newcastle]

I have bitsas that I have made / rescued from being bubbaified / sporterized. Disappointing to think that as I'm trying to get rifles back to military condition, others might be breaking them up for parts.

[Rumpelhardt]

I love desporterising these things. My favorite rifle next to my Model 70 is my No.4 Long Branch that I unBubbaed. I don't think it will ever be truly finished and I've learned a lot from the experience. I am in the U.S. so I don't have the ownership issues a lot of you do so that plays a big part.

[Buccaneer]

Made up, put together from bits totally un-collectable (or are they)Lee Enfield Rifles. What should we do with them?.
I now have two possibly three of these rifles and in order to keep them I have to shoot them at least 3 times a year each. What should I do with them?.

Hi JSS, The first question I would ask is were the rifles bought for "sporting / shooting" or as part of a collection? If the first is the case then you would be expected to use them to justify there ownership if the second is the case then shooting them is not necessary.
The law in the UK seems to split "shooters" as people with a couple of rifles that shoot on a regular basis either target or vermin/game shooting, and collectors as people with a collection but with no ammunition. There is however a third way that a lot of Police forces seem to ignore as it does not fit in with the way they want to enforce gun control. The "occasional" shooter is a collector that has a collection and shoots, this catogory is Home Office recognised and a full description can be found on the HBSA (Historic Breechloading Small Arms) website.
To be seen as a collector you must demonstrate that you have a genuine interest ie you have books on the subject can demonstrate your interest in reserch and history of your subject. Joining an organisation like the H.B.S.A. is also a big plus as it has members around the world. If your police force does not know about the "Occasional Shooter" download the document from the H.B.S.A. site and send it to them. I started out this way and now have an extensive collection of both full bore and small bore military rifles many of which do not get shoot from one year to the next.
I have a very good police firearms section here, I brought the "Occasional Shooter" document to ther attention some years ago and they have been very helpful ever since. I know that police forces differ from area to area especially in the way they interpret and administer the gun control laws, however the law is what the law is and not what someone wants it to be, if you are a genuine collector and can prove it then there should be no reason why you can't keep your rifles and enjoy them at the range as well.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Disappointing to think that as I'm trying to get rifles back to military condition, others might be breaking them up for parts.

No, not disappointing, just reality. Don't get me wrong newcastle. I have a couple of strays myself. I bought a sporterized No. 8 for peanuts, and took great pleasure in restoring it to its original configuration AND proving (on the RWS test range) than it shoots as well as the best modern .22s. And I brought a Belgian copy of a S&W Russian revolver in 44 Henry rimfire back from the dead to a state where I have actually used it in competition. But even I have to have a reality check every now and again, and a barrel that is shot out or badly rusted turns the typical milsurp into a spare parts source.

The restrictions mean that it is just not possible to acquire everything that takes your fancy - sometimes you have to make hard choices. I had a Schultz & Larsen 98-based target rifle from 1969. It beats a lot of modern stuff. But not the best. So when I found a wonderful Snider, it had to be bye-bye S&L, which I had not shot for several years. Time and space is limited.

This spring I saw a sporterized No.4 Mk1 and thought "hey, I've got all the bits to put that back to original configuration right here - I don't need to buy anything!". But the auction price rose to the level where I concluded that it did not make sense to buy it in that condition. Buying a sporterized beater at the price for which you could buy an unaltered beater just does not make sense.

The real shock came when it turned out that it had been bought by another member of the same club! Now he is trying to get the bits together, and is refusing to face up to the fact that it is going to cost him more than if he had bought an intact No. 4 to start off with. Even if I gave him all my bits at the prices I paid. I offered to do so, but that was still too much, and he continues to hope that the missing woodwork, foresight assembly, backsight, buttplate etc etc are all going to drop from the trees.

Yes it's fun. But does it make sense?

Patrick

[newcastle]

HA - nothing about this hobby makes sense really, but I understand absolutely. I'm also not subject to restrictions apart from overflow from the safe and my locked room. Current project is a nO.4 mk1/2 restoration. cost of inital sporter $185, cost of parts to make a bitsa - $150 value of bitsa - $200....fun had while doing it - priceless!!

[jss]

HA - nothing about this hobby makes sense really, but I understand absolutely.

.........

I think that just about puts it in a nutshell!.

I'll keep my "bitsas" (if I'm allowed) simply because someone went to the trouble of putting them back together, possibly not for profit, and that is as much (if not more) a part of their history as anything else. In fact they are almost more interesting because of it, especially when faulty. Now I just need to get fit in order to cycle the100 mile round trip to Bisley every couple of days in order to shoot them, as the cost of petrol is starting to get prohibitive.
Anyone got one of those BSA bicycles with the SMLE rack for sale?.