L42/Enforcer Ammunication

[Gloworm]

Is the GGG 7.62 NATO safe to use in an Enforcer?
I have bought some of this but due to lockdown haven’t had chance to use it yet! 😳

I bought it as it appeared to be correct in weight and designation so assumed (always dangerous) that it was to 7.62 NATO spec?

[Gil Boyd]

I use only GGG 7.62 in my Enforcer, and have been for many years.
All I would say, is NOT to use commercial .308WIN rounds in the 7.62mm chamber of the Enforcer, as it is potentially dangerous, but what has been said many times before on here, it is OK to fire 7.62mm x 51 rounds in a .308 WIN rifle.
Its all down to headspace.
Its also been remarked on here previously, check what pressure your rifle has been tested too. Its well stamped in a number of places, and will make you feel reassurred. If unsure take your rifle to a proficient gunsmith.
Hope that helps

[Alan de Enfield]

Thanks Alan de Enfield,

I understand the meaning, of course - unfortunately there is no possibility here in Switzerland for doing this. At least as far as i know. Probably its only in Germany possible.. . If anything..

If i understand that correct, its in this case - nearly - impossible to load safe ammo with bullets heavier than 155 gr..?

I found different earlier posts, in one the try was do define this psi-pressure level of the 19t-proofed Lee-Enfields. The calculation was the following one under the Thread More Bad Press for the Enfield:



Quote Originally Posted by Edward Horton View Post
Slamfire1 and forum members

The 19 tsi for the 7.62 No.4 Enfields equals 19 x 2040 = 38,760 + 20% = 46,512 .

.
Ed - a slight mathematical error
A ton is 2240 lbs (and not 2040), so 19 X 2240 + 20% = 51072


This 51072 will be the CUP-level, I suppose ? I will have to let produce reloads - probably in any case - it would be essential to know the PSI-level, coming from this 51072-pressure-Info. As with the cases.. .

The same goes for reloading-infos. They are even under PM still really very welcome :-) It should be able to get velocity-measurements, i will mention them of course.

Surpmil: you wrote your last posting in a very kind way. ;-) Yes, i will do what you mention there - be assured.

Bindi2, Bruce of Oz: the Enforcer Serial No. 171 will not be cracked because of a too strong load :-) I don't wan't to kill my rarities. Why should I ?..

Many thanks !
Greetings
Enfield Enforcer

Be careful not to become confused, there are several different ways of measuring the pressures from SAAMI to NATO, to CIP to US Army and each method gives different results (as it is measured in different places)
Then you have the problem of converting CUP to PSI which is not a simple calculation.

Attached is a table showing the different methods for SAAMI, NATO, CIP and the US Army, and a comparison table for CIP to PSI for various calibres.
These figures are for the same ammunition in the same firearm just different methods of recording pressure.

You always need to confirm that you are comparing apples with apples and NOT Apples with Bananas.

[Bindi2]

52,000 CUP with a variance in PSI of 10,000. Now throw in tight/loose bores different shape projectiles temperature sensitive powder also burn rate, new or worn chamber reamers different case manufacturer ( same load huge pressure differences shows as large velocity jump or other high pressure signs).. Just some of the things that get in the way. Then there is folk law loads.
I read some hunting Forums where loads being discussed in short barrelled hunting rifles I can not get remotely close to with a target rifle.

[Gloworm]

I use only GGG 7.62 in my Enforcer, and have been for many years.
All I would say, is NOT to use commercial .308WIN rounds in the 7.62mm chamber of the Enforcer, as it is potentially dangerous, but what has been said many times before on here, it is OK to fire 7.62mm x 51 rounds in a .308 WIN rifle.
Its all down to headspace.


Its also been remarked on here previously, check what pressure your rifle has been tested too. Its well stamped in a number of places, and will make you feel reassurred. If unsure take your rifle to a proficient gunsmith.
Hope that helps

Thanks Gil, that puts my mind at ease 😅

[Enfield Enforcer]

This pressure: if for the Enfield Enforcer it is not the NATO value of these 60,190 PSI, that would be the 62,000 PSI and 4150 bar of the .308 Win. much too close and because the 19t-proof-test is supposed to correspond to 3650 bar, what is this relationship to the 4150 bar ? How much PSI is it ultimately ? Finally, I have to be able to inform the commercial reloader of this upper limit. A new proof testing is rather unrealistic, I'm afraid.

So it should be 3,650: 4150 = 0.87951807, i.e. around 87.9% of the NATO value above. That would mean that is 0.87951807 of 60'190 bar = 52'938.1927 PSI. So around 53,000 PSI - is that right now ? I need a realiable value, here. Second best-solution ? A combination of this 55'000 PSI-Surplus Cases-Limit and 53'000 PSI System-Limit, in other words ?

Greetings
Enfield Enforcer

[Gil Boyd]

Blimey....................

[vintage hunter]

Just keep it at .303 pressure levels and dont worry about it.
.303 max pressure:
C.I.P.= 52,939 p.s.i.
SAAMI= 49,000 p.s.i.
The majority of if not all .308 starting loads, regardless of bullet weight/powder combination, is well within if not below those parameters.
www.hodgdon.com reloading data
Havent had mine our in a while but it gets fed RG L2a2 surplus or for hunting a 150gr Hornady fbsp over 42.9gr IMR 4064 loaded into LC nato brass, which according to the above linked website developes 47,500 p.s.i..

[30Three]

Anyone else noticed a few irregularities in the Piezo/crusher pressure list.
Some similar CUP pressures have very different PSI pressures listed.
For example:
223 Remington: CUP 52,000 and PSI 55,000
243 Winchester: CUP 52,000 and PSI 60,000
6mm Remington: CUP 52,000 and PSI 65,000

I find it a bit odd that identical result in one system can give 10,000 PSI difference in another.

Anyway; it's a bit pointless trying to guess if a certain hand load will be similar to a lab test. Too many variables to be of any real use and no guarantee of safety. Unless you have access to the same test equipment fitted to your rifle.

For my 7.62 reloading for my L39 I keep it simple. Test velocity of NATO surplus in my rifle.
Use ogives of similar weight and keep within the velocity of the original (GGG ) surplus.
At least that way I know it should be safe to shoot for a good long while.

[Bindi2]

Finally the serious issue has been grasped by several shooter/owners. The chronograph and starting loads from the reload data sheets are your friends with several other tricks learnt from hand loading over the last 50 years. You may find very interesting chronny data on 303 cordite loads(because I could) that are difficult to replicate on a drop sheet with modern powders. DONT mix your brass large pressure/velocity spikes can and do appear. Treat the L42 gently and it will stack shots for a very long time to come