.303 British winning loads and tricks... ( here mine)

[ptf18]

Bow: This is off topic... abit... my apoloizes to the forum and delete it if need be. But I curious to know where Bow shoots and at what distances? Do you shoot competitively? I ask because I see you location is in Italy. Just seems "odd" to this Yank (actually to a Texan) as all the "stuff" we hear about the governmental firearms restrictions on people around the world. Maybe its just "stuff" we Yanks hear.

[bow]

I shoot 110 m. , 200 m. and 300m. Here we shoot sitting or prone postion, both supported. No free hand shooting and no sling, coats are used. I'm a bit lucky: 1 hour travel i find two ranges 100-300 meters. So i have frequent shooting session.

And yes ptf18 there are many restriction: we cannot own 9mm parabellum ammo. and firearms, we are allowed to own only 3 " home security2 fire arms but we could own hom many firearms we want if they're " build for shhoting sports". We could own how much surplus rifle we want due the fact they're " rifles used for hunting purpose" but we cannot buy more than 10 pounds reloading powder. So..italian firearms law is a bit courious .

[DocAV]

Rule One: Match the cases to Rifle chamber ( most Lee-Enfield rifle chambers are still "War Emergency" size and will "lopside" a SAAMI spec case on first firing. That's why I reload
.250" Berdan primed Commonwealth cases, FN and Prvi 1950-1980s cases ( .217 Berdan). I steer clear of any of the US made commercials ( Undersized, thin brass). Since most profligate Americans ( and a Lot of Brits and Aussies) Hurled their Berdan cases as "unreloadable" or "fragile" or "Mercuric" ( all three "myths" pure BS), these excellent cases are now hard to find. BTW , the Prvi Berdan cases were Military spec, not the lighter Boxer ones they make now... Same goes for S&B ( Berdan cases are fine, Boxer cases head separate easily)

Rule Two: Use only one brand, fired from new Factory...ie, no range pickups (" you don't know where it's been"), and steer clear of US SAAMI Brass for the reasons mentioned above.

Rule Three: Once you have uniformed the cases to the rifle chamber ( use a "centering" method if the chamber is "over-endowned" either in length or in diameter; Then, ONLY neck size. I don't even "neck expand", since I use Turned (CNC) Boat-tail brass projectiles ( Mark VIII profile, but weigh 154 grains) instead of lead-cored designs.

BTW, Anneal ALL cordite Loaded, once- Fired cases, to give the neck and sholder area a reprieve from the
"Age cracking" and Stress cracking" which derives from the process of Loading the Cordite.

Rule Four: Don't go looking for 2,500 plus Fps performance ( the standard was 2,440 fps, Mark VII, and around 2,000 for the older, 215 grain Mark VI).
It makes it easier on the Cases, on the Rifle, and on your Shoulder.

I have about 200 PRVI ( PPYU 85 Mark VIII Berdan cases) which I dedicate to my Chilean Navy Ross M1910, a similar number for my P14(F) of FN 40 Berdan cases ( yes, 1940) and in the SMLEs I use Aussie and Canadian Military cases, Berdan: the Aussie new cases (pulled down Cordite MF 59 ammo, with annealed body and Corrosive primer removed) and the Canadian, depending on the rifle, Once-fired DI 43 Boxer cases or DAC 44 Berdan cases ( again, preventative annealing)...all my other Berdan cases have gone to Movie Blanks, due to the Poor quality of even the annealed cases...BTW, POF 66 Berdan cases, once annealed, are excellent, even for Making "Long Blanks" ( That is another story.)

If I had sufficient quantity of PPYU 85 ammo/cases, I would unify all on this case, and abandon all the others. FN and Greek (HXP) cases came in a close second.

Doc AV

Rule of Thumb, a CNC-Turned Brass (60/40 alloy) projectile will be 5/6ths the Mass of the original profile andf lead core Jacketed bullet it is copied from...eg, 174gn Mark VII profile is 154 grains in 60/40 brass; a 152gn .30cal M2 is 127 grains in Brass, and the L2A2 7,62 N projectile (144 grain) is 123 grains in brass. And they Zip along with the Loads of their Bigger brothers ( a Nato or an M2 will do 3000 fps with the Powder load of the original lead core bullet. ( and 1-2 inch groups).

[303Guy]

I did think of the jacket issue but I figure the friction of the bore pushing "on" the jacket and the force of the charge from behind will keep it on a least til it leaves the bore.
It's just a "I wonder" thing,,,,

I wouldn't take a chance. I've heard of 303's blowing out the core and leaving the jacket behind without cutting the base off. If the conditions are right it can blow a hole through the jacket base. Now I haven't seen this for myself but the fellow telling the tale is not known to make things up. The explanation is that the powder burn rate was fast enough to bump the bullet up to fill the throat where the jacket jammed and released the core. That's where the jacket was found - in the throat. It prevented a fresh round from chambering and that's how the event was discovered.

Rule Four: Don't go looking for 2,500 plus Fps performance

+1
There's no need for extreme velocity. With slower powders the velocity can be kept to 2400~2450 fps with quite moderate pressures that will give an almost indefinite case life. All that is needed is frequent case neck annealing. Mind you, I was driving 150gr bullets at 2690 fps and had zero case failure and zero case elongation. I did have a few neck splits and a few more lost to the long grass!

[CINDERS]

I have heard of the doughnut trick with only neck sizing so much of the case neck but as the brass flows forward this can lead to complications after a while with the brass build up such that the round jams and you have to ream the neck or turn and go again but then you may have to use bushing dies.
I do the whole neck but keep all the brass apart from each rifle (5 -303's) bit tedious but works and then FLS them every 3 shoots trim to length after every shoot not required but just force of habit.

I use AR 2208 or 09 Fed 210 RP brass and 174 SMK's but the Hornady 150gn sp sp's do well being .312, my new load after I try it will let the guys know about if it proves a success like develops 3,000psi less than 08 or 09 for the same velocity 2,440fps with a 174 SMK

[Patrick Chadwick]

I agree with what you wrote, but with one exception:

If I had sufficient quantity of PPYU 85 ammo/cases, I would unify all on this case, and abandon all the others. FN and Greek (HXP) cases came in a close second.

That may not be a good idea. If you are only neck sizing the cases, then specific cases will fit specific rifles. For instance, the fire-formed and neck-sized cases for my No1MkIII, No.1MkV and No.4Mk2 are not mutually interchangeable, although all three have as-new barrels. Presumably as a result of being manufactured over a spread of thirty years.

So you need to keep the cases for rifle A separate from the cases for rifle B and so on, but if you only have one case manufacturer, you need to mark the cases to prevent confusion. I know a shooter and his wife who both shoot Carl Gustav M96s, both rifles with individually matched neck-sized ammo - yes "his" and "her" ammo!

One day he went to a competition alone, and found he had taken her ammo. It couldn't be chambered properly - end of competition. Since then, they use different case manufacturers for each rifle.

So rather than having to mark each case, wouldn't it be easier to stick to one manufacturer per rifle?

[Aussie48]

Some more untruths surface, Privi Partisan mine head stamped PPU ex Highland commercial the primer hole is .071" as is my Remington, Winchester ww, Winchester super and Norma brass.
The closest brass to the original military is PPU rim thickness wise closely followed by Norma and Winchester Super.
Primers I use CCI BR2 in all cases.
Powder for my sporterised 1918 Enfiled Win 760 in Winchester ww cases..
For my other 3 I use AR2208 in PPU cases (1950 Longbranch No 4) Norma cases (Lithgow No 1 MK 3) Winchester Super cases (1945 No 5 Shirley).
Projectiles for the Sporter Taipan 135gn HP (Aussie made) flat base
For Military rifle shoots I use 174gn Hornady FMJ BT or Woodleigh 174gn .312 Weldcore PP SN flat based.
They all shoot 3" groups at 300 metres.
The PPU cases are the longest lasting for reloading around 15 reloads per case I full length size new brass first then neck size only and I only use Lee Dies.

[bow]

Some more untruths surface, Privi Partisan mine head stamped PPU ex Highland commercial the primer hole is .071" as is my Remington, Winchester ww, Winchester super and Norma brass

Mine PPu brass, simply... doesn't have the same flash hole ( not primer hole Aussie). I think primer hole is almost the same. However 3" groups at 300 meters are a great result

---------- Post added at 04:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------

Rule of Thumb, a CNC-Turned Brass (60/40 alloy) projectile will be 5/6ths the Mass of the original profile andf lead core Jacketed bullet it is copied from...eg, 174gn Mark VII profile is 154 grains in 60/40 brass; a 152gn .30cal M2 is 127 grains in Brass, and the L2A2 7,62 N projectile (144 grain) is 123 grains in brass. And they Zip along with the Loads of their Bigger brothers ( a Nato or an M2 will do 3000 fps with the Powder load of the original lead core bullet. ( and 1-2 inch groups).

Very very interesting A friend of mine build his own bullets. if we buiild an exact copy of MkVII projectile using a 60/40 brass alloy waht are the exact load data to use? Those written for 174 grainers or for 154?

[stevegun 1]

Almost a year ago I bought a sporterized Savage No4 Mk 1* from the widow of a friend. I had helped him start reloading for it and we developed a load using AA2520 which I gave him and Sierra 180gr Pro-Hunter bullets, we never got to hunt with it. My 2520 supply is low and I want a suggested starting point with Varget for these bullets. For me reloading is a "means to an end" not a hobby.

I've purchased a Redding bushing type 3 die set. The brass I'll be using will be PRVI once fired (this rifle) and some that has been fired 2-3 times using the 2520 load we developed. Since I'll be limited to either WIN or REM brass here in the US, is one preferred over the other?

Would someone please explain the "o-ring" method of firing factory ammo in the 303 chamber and please be specific about what number o-ring to use.

My ultimate goal is to harvest a wild hog and a deer since Jerry and I never got to make the hunting trip.

Thank you, Steve.

[Parashooter]

Use a trusted source for load data, never some unknown forum nut (like me)! Cartridge Loads - Hodgdon Reloading Data Center - data.hodgdon.com

Cartridge: 303 British Starting Loads followed by Maximum Loads
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
180 GR. SIE SP . . . Hodgdon . . Varget . . .311" . . . . 3.075" 37.0 2282 38,200 CUP . . . 41.0 2440 43,400 CUP

(Are you confident this data was copied accurately? I'm not!)



Many materials can do the simple job of holding the cartridge head back against the bolt face. The desired qualities are sufficient resistance to avoid deforming under the firing pin blow and subsequent primer backthrust combined with enough plasticity to allow a good "crush" fit when the bolt is closed. Actually, neoprene O-rings are a bit too elastic for ideal performance while semi-hard plastics like nylon and PVC can do a better job. Ordinary dental floss can also perform effectively, but is tedious to apply.

The size of the spacer depends on its plasticity as well as the dimensions of the cartridge and rifle. Nobody but you is in a good position to judge (by the "feel" of bolt closing) if it's right for your specific conditions.

Please note that the use of a spacer is beneficial only if the rifle/cartridge combination suffers from excess end-play because the rifle has excess headspace, the cartridge rims are thin, or both.

I have observed no difference in longevity between Remington and Winchester brass, but there have been a few reports that some recent Winchester, outsourced from a European maker, may be less elastic than US production.

If you haven't already, please read Headspace 101 for .303's