Citadel M1-22 Carbine

[Patrick Chadwick]

Would it be possible to see some photos of the Erma feedway Patrick? I have never dealt with one, and google is not forthcoming with photos of the area.

Yes, but it will have to wait for a couple of days. About the only published photo is here:

ERMA-Werke

When I have posted a couple of pics of my example, you will be able to see that the ramp in the receiver feeds the cartridge in so low that it leads to the "crash" mentioned in a previous post. I fear that it is necessary to build this up, as well as try the alteration to the front of the magazine which you described. Since the receiver is an absolutely (as far as I know) unsolderable zinc-based casting, the only way I can think of doing this is to build the ramp up with an epoxy-metal filler. AND it will probably need one or two fine holes drilled at an angle to lock the epoxy and stop it cracking off as a result of the recoil. Maybe I'll try it without the locking holes first.

Not wishing to FUBAR my otherwise excellent rifle (wait for the photos!) I am hesitant to do this. Any suggestions will be welcomed!

[Patrick Chadwick]

I have found that Federal copper jacketed 36 gr. "bulk" is good benchmark ammunition for most rifles. The powder control is decent, varying by about 0.06 grains over 5 pulled cartridges (1.38 - 1.44 grains of powder) and is exactly the same QC as their Federal Premium Target, albeit at a lessor charge of 1.00 - 1.06 grains and a heavier bullet at 40 gr.

Yup, that was it - the bulk package. Thanks for your measurements, which show that it has indeed that little extra bit of "zip" which seems to make the operation more reliable.

[Sentryduty]

Is this an accurate representation of the feedway of your model?


---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:13 PM ----------

If your action appears as above, my concerns with building a feed ramp would be regarding interference with allowing the bolt to close fully into battery. This really depends on how much room there is under the 6 o'clock portion of the bolt face. If we are stuck without room to build up a feed ramp, I think we are down to adjusting the feed angle with the magazine follower as discussed before, or exaggerating the bellmouth at the bottom of the chamber. However my concern there is it is A) Permanent and B) Too much may leave the case unsupported and cause a blow out.

Full disclosure with working the bellmouth of the chamber, at that point we are out side my experience level of what is safe or unsafe. There is what I think could happen but I do not know what the margins are.

[Patrick Chadwick]

However my concern there is it is A) Permanent and B) Too much may leave the case unsupported and cause a blow out.

Dead on!

BTW, the example in the photo appears to have exactly what we are discussing - the bell-mouthed bottom of the chamber entrance. And the follower seems to come up much higher than on my rifle - or in the photo on the linked site in my previous post. It looks as if someone has "been there, done that". The question is: did it work?

---------- Post added at 08:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 PM ----------

This really depends on how much room there is under the 6 o'clock portion of the bolt face.

Practically none. A week ago, when the Erma wouldn't lock up, I discovered that a bit of lead had been sheared off and was sitting in the bottom corner of the barrel/receiver junction, thus preventing the bolt from closing up properly.

Full disclosure with working the bellmouth of the chamber, at that point we are out side my experience level of what is safe or unsafe. There is what I think could happen but I do not know what the margins are.

Agreed.

[Sentryduty]

Alright, so now we might be on to something.

Do you have more than 1 magazine, and if so, does one feed markedly better than the other? Experimentation might solve this yet.

If you have two magazines, number them with a sticker and some tape, or however you please. Them compare them side by side, we are looking for differences in the feed angle of the follower, maybe one matches the photo above and one does not.

What is the age of the magazines? Maybe the springs have gone a little weak and are not keeping the round on track to the chamber during feeding.

I think we can get this figured out, I have done automotive diagnostics over the internet before but have never done firearms consultation, same process, and just as interesting.

---------- Post added at 01:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:06 PM ----------

The other thought I have is fitment of the magazines in the magazine well, can they be pushed fore and aft? If so, that will change the feed angles. If it can, does feeding improve by placing a forward pressure on the magazine body?

You'll have plenty of questions out of me, but it is enjoyable solving a puzzle.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Good ideas! Will take a bit of time to go through them all. 4 magazines, and they do behave slightly differently. I'll start by photographing how they sit, but my memory says none of the followers sit as high as the one in the photo.
BTW: where did the photo come from ? Is it someone you know? Pick his brains! How did he do it? How does the rifle perform?

---------- Post added at 11:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------

The other thought I have is fitment of the magazines in the magazine well, can they be pushed fore and aft?

All close fitting, in fact one is a definite rubbing fit and may need to be filed down on a couple of spots.

[Sentryduty]

Patrick, I must laugh, that exact photo is from the link you supplied on the Erma produced guns, second page. I went looking for a photo of the action and found that.

[Sentryduty]

Here is a look at the magazine follower feed angles of 2 of my .22 LR rifles. As you can see they are anything but flat.

[Sentryduty]

Looks like I should be able to get out to the range this evening, I will be testing for cycling and accuracy groupings from a rested bench. Results to follow!

[Sentryduty]

I managed to make it to the range and enjoyed an evening of success with the Chiappa M1-22.

The rifle functioned very well, consuming 195 rounds from a variety of brands, with only one stoppage, a failure to feed, detailed below. The extractions issues have been resolved I think, no issues were observed.

The range is a 40 yard indoor facility that had standing benches with a front rifle rest, all shooting was done from this position without a lot of emphasis on match grade grouping.



Ammunition for the test:
Federal 36 gr JHP 1260 fps
Federal Gold Medal Match Lead RN 40gr 1080 fps
CCI Mini-Mag JRN 40 gr 1235 fps
Remington Thunderbolt Lead RN 40 gr 1255 fps
Aguila Super Extra JRN 40 gr 1250 fps




This stoppage occurred on the last magazine with one of the final 10 Remington Thunderbolts, it plowed into the bottom of the chamber, it could be a magazine loading error on my part. The round was slightly damaged, discarded and firing resumed without issue. For the entire session the rifle was run only very lightly lubricated and required nothing more than sight adjustments.


In closing of this update, I think we have a decent plinker that is breaking in well, my next complaint will be to address the trigger. The 7lb 12 oz factory pull is far too gritty for enjoyable shooting, but I will tackle that in a later post.