.410 Enfield

[Mikesm44]

Hello again. I have a new addition to my Enfields. It is a 1917 BSA SHT LE converted in 1947 by RFI. I do not know if this is unusual or not, but so far all the serials are matching including the nose cap, bolt and stock. I haven't taken it out of the stock, yet.

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Is the crown over the "GR" an Indian mark? I remember Skennerton's book he shows examples of "GRI" but I don't remember just GR.

The previous owner had never fired it and did not know if it had been reamed to accept .410 shotgun shells. I do not know how to tell if that has been done to it. If it is unaltered, what are my options ammo-wise? Is reloading the only real path?

Thanks for reading.

Information

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[enfield303t]

Nice gun and in very good condition. Think it might take the brass ctg so you can fire form a .303 empty and I am sure someone will post a link on the best way to do that.

[Alan de Enfield]

The rifle was built by BSA in 1917 so it would have 'English' markings - hence the GR (George Rex - George V king of England)

The GRI marking would be used by India for rifles manufactured there, The GRI is 'George Rex Imperator' (Imperator = Emperor of India) If the rifle had been maked by Ishapore in 1947 it would relate to George VI and not George V.

If it has not been bored out to suit commercial 410 then you can easily make your own 303/410 cartridges by taking some new 303 cases, lightly loading them and 'blowing them out' / Fire-forming them. Im sure there is more info on the forum if you do a search.

[Beerhunter]

If it is unaltered, what are my options ammo-wise? Is reloading the only real path?

Yes but they make lousy shotguns. IIWY, I'd buy a "proper" .410 and keep the musket for what it is - a collectors' item.

When I have some time to spare, I plan to make some ball rounds for mine.

[WarPig1976]

First, thanks Alan for GR vs GRI info.

These where issued to guards correct? With the idea if prisoners got a hold of it they would only have one shot, or am I wrong?

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Depending on how "generous" the original dimensions of the Indian .410 "musket" chamber are, there is another solution.

Instead of trying to blow our .303 brass, try some .444 Marlin cases. These are solidly built, straight cases that run a .063" thick rim, a straight-sided body 2.162" long and about .469" diameter at the web. The funny thing is that, when I bought a Marlin 444, "way back when", "proper" cases were almost unavailable in Australia. So, I did what you are talking about, and blew out 40 or so once-fired, boxer primed .303 cases, tidied up the necks and loaded them with some jacketed bullets supplied by a friend who went through a lot of .44 magnum ammo each year. Eventually the "proper" cases became available and I retired the improvised ones.

The .444 was pretty impressive in the field, but I came to the conclusion that the basic .303 sporter with good bullets was just as good in close and much better at longer ranges. So I traded it for a .45-70 Marlin......... a brief fling that lasted until I discovered the joys of the .308 Win in things like H&K 91s, L1A1s etc.

With a solid case like that you could easily run "duplex" loads with a pair of pure lead, round balls of suitable diameter, for some serious wallop. It is a "shot" gun, after all. And then there are the discarding sabot projectiles designed for use in "black-powder" hunting rifles. Not sure if they make them that small, though, and stabilisation could be an issue.

Instead of flogging the expensive brass cases by roll-crimping the ends, try topping the load with a smear of plumbers silicon rubber to keep the shot in and the elements out.

Then again, see if yours is one of the many that seem to have been reamed to accept standard .410 plastic and paper shells.

[Beerhunter]

These where issued to guards correct? With the idea if prisoners got a hold of it they would only have one shot, or am I wrong?

There isn't a lot about these guns because the Indians are notoriously secretive about this sort of stuff. However they have been seen in the inventory of Police Stations and so are assumed to be a Police weapon. The ammunition: ball, shot, and blank would tend to reinforce this with a view that they are for riot control.

The idea behind these is that that first off, it isn't a very good gun and so its loss would be less to mourn over. (The British started giving the "natives" rubbish guns after the Mutiny. So-called India Patterns.) Second, if the gun is taken off it's rightful carrier, the miscreant has at most one shot. Thereafter it becomes a long club because the ONLY source of the weird ammunition is the Government.

[Mikesm44]

Well, thanks for all the into. I am sorry to hear they make lousy shotguns. I'm still thinking that eventually I'll give it a try though.

It seems unaltered. When I have an empty .303 I'll put it in to check for sure. I'll leave it as it is. At worse I'll end up selling it if doesn't turn out to be any fun, but I haven't met a rifle that fires that wasn't fun to fire. I have "returned" enough firearms to "original" condition that there is no way I can knowingly mess with this one.

[browningautorifle]

I always thought they were neat and just couldn't find a good one. Now, I'd make brass for it one way or another and use a duplex or triplex load for it. The round ball would be easy to produce and if in doubt, .410 shotgun wads would avoid leading. Most of the barrels I saw were about mirror.

[Enfield Novice]

I had wonderful fun just shooting blank rounds. But really it will just sit as a collectable until I can can talk someone into making me some shells.