Late Nagoya Type 99

[Midmichigun]

Gents,
I have grabbed another rifle to restore! Or not.
Here is a late war transition/ last ditch rifle type 99 that I scored at a gunshop. Bubba worked on this one a bit... but first some photos.

The top rifle is the one that I just scored. As you see, the fore end has been cut, and the nose cap is missing. Bubba also messed with the upper handguard, and was carved back.
One saving grace is a partial "grind" on the Mum...

Here is the arsenal mark.

Rear and front sights...



End of fore end


What is interesting, is that bubba didn't remove the barrel before cutting on the stock. I do have light (but safe) cut marks on the barrel from a hack saw.

As you can see, the stock was modified forward of the barrel band. This allows me to actually cut the stock further back, to create a "duffel cut" situation (with sourced end cap). If I make a new fore end.

However, with the heavy sanding of the stock, it will be tough to take it back to "military". However, the stock appears to have some light water damage that should be repaired.


This is not the roughest last ditch or transition rifle by any means... Here are some random photos...






What is interesting, is that the bolt matches the receiver.

Now if you go back to the rifle on the bottom of the top photo, I repaired the stock on that one. The duffel cut section and top cover and end cap were missing. So this is a do able restoration... or beginning of a nice sporter (since 7.7 can't normally be found).

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[burb1989]

It'll be tough if you're trying to make it a matching rifle though. Remember the bayonet lug would have a number that matched the receiver too so it might not ever be a matching numbered gun. How much did you pay for it if you don't mind me asking?

[Midmichigun]

Burb,
I got it for about $90.00. I was sorta bummed since they "required" me to buy a trigger lock. And tried to make me buy a gun sleeve/ case.

The $100.00 mark is where I see non matching lightly bubba'd arisakas go for around here....Maybe more. I have to say that the supply is drying up a bit it seems.

As the dealer mentioned, many in this price range end up on eBay or gun broker as parts. since it is border line on restoration... Customized... Or parts...

[mil-surp60]

Correct me if i am wrong , but that is not a nagoya marking on rifle ,looks like a kokura last ditch, and be careful with those last ditch rifles if you plan to fire it, could be dangerous in the least. I do not think nagoya was making last ditchers in fact, i could be wrong.They made the earlier 99s and 38's, I own 3, 2 nagoya earlys and an early kokura.the kokura has the same markings on the top rifle. Pretty sure that is a kokura last ditch, but im not an expert just a novice please correct me if i am wrong someone lol i need to know ya know lol.

[Midmichigun]

Mil Surp,
I am looking at the following website:
http://www.castle-thunder.com/arsenal.htm
It says that they made rifles up to 1945 including Type 99 long rifles.

The kokura are "three stacked" cannon balls.

Hopefully an expert will clarify if the website is in error....

This does have strong rifling in it. But it doesn't have a chrome bolt face or bore.....

[mil-surp60]

yep, is a nagoya my bad. I stand corrected sir,seems i had it backwards , why i say i am no expert thanx man. Now i know

[Aragorn243]

No such thing as a "last ditch" Japanese rifle. There are substitute standard rifles which do not have all the bells and whistles that the earlier rifles have and as the war progresses, the bells got smaller and the whistles quieter but one thing that did not happen is a dangerous rifle. If it has the mum, it's as safe as any early rifle.

The confusion occurred most likely because Japan unlike most other nations, used training rifles which weren't real rifles. Well, a few of them were, old, worn out, etc but a lot of them were just put together out of whatever materials they could find and they looked like rifles. A GI not knowing that would take the training rifle home as a prize and attempt to shoot it which very probably would result in disaster.

The Arisaka action is one of the strongest ever made and that mum on the receiver means it was accepted into the military as a fully functional and safe rifle.

[burb1989]

well $90 isn't terrible but it is not that good either. even if you get a whole new stock and bayonet lug it will still be a mismatched rifle with a not so perfect mum it would be worth probably around $150-$200 at the very best.

[mil-surp60]

No such thing as a "last ditch" Japanese rifle. There are substitute standard rifles which do not have all the bells and whistles that the earlier rifles have and as the war progresses, the bells got smaller and the whistles quieter but one thing that did not happen is a dangerous rifle. If it has the mum, it's as safe as any early rifle. Think you may want to reaserch that dude , seen a few LAST DITCH EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE blow up from lack of good steel and quality.

The confusion occurred most likely because Japan unlike most other nations, used training rifles which weren't real rifles. Well, a few of them were, old, worn out, etc but a lot of them were just put together out of whatever materials they could find and they looked like rifles. A GI not knowing that would take the training rifle home as a prize and attempt to shoot it which very probably would result in disaster.

The Arisaka action is one of the strongest ever made and that mum on the receiver means it was accepted into the military as a fully functional and safe rifle.

think you may want to reasearch that dude , i have seen quite a few LAST DITCH RIFLES AS EXACTLY AS THEY ARE CALLED,blow up for lack of good steel and quality near end of war ,they are exactly that , dangerous to fire at times have at it its your life man. I will stick to the real collectors that are safe to shoot made before 44, not one im afraid may blow my head off from the bolt coming off sheared off the cheap lousy quality steel receiver they were built on, your head man , however long you may not have it feeding a steady diet of full power loads in last ditchers.GOOD luck with that i wish you well.

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

Gents,
I too agree on the changes in the market place. Before, I was laughed at for picking up Nippon junk. Now prices and availability have gone up. I have seen stripped receivers (late war) go for as much as I paid for this one... it was a tossup on to buy and save or pass. Generally I view this hobby as not a money making one... more like a saving history... and learning a great deal.

If the receiver was drilled and tapped for a scope, I would generally be learning towards finishing as a sporter.

If you look at my original post, and rifle comparison to the new purchased item, the rifle on the bottom was missing a great deal of wood! So I am not afraid of tackling projects.

My only concern going forward is trying to repair the Bubba'd stock (and admittedly he did a fair job considering what he had to work with) to the proper finish. If you look at the area of the crossbolt, the metal is proud to the wood.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...64c2dd50-1.jpg

A lil bit of "pimp my shine" going on there too! Not exactly Urushi! The concern about the cross bolt, is that he didn't leave me much material to try and restore the military finish with.

I have seen "reproduction" buttplates, but don't think I will need one. As mine seems fine.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...66e60324-1.jpg

I do have options on the stock itself. I have some nice hard/ sugar maple and also American Walnut that I could use to machine out a new stock.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4f779253-1.jpg

I also have some padauk laying around to fashion a new fore arm. I am vexed by the upper handguard, and may have to make a new one also.

I will be on the hunt for a late war nose cap, as this is a bit harder to make out of metal!

Thanks for your input folks!!

I have a 3 screw bayo lug ill sell ya for the type 99 you want it. with the nose cap. Also have a few steel buttplates.

[Aragorn243]

think you may want to reasearch that dude , i have seen quite a few LAST DITCH RIFLES AS EXACTLY AS THEY ARE CALLED,blow up for lack of good steel and quality near end of war ,they are exactly that , dangerous to fire at times have at it its your life man. I will stick to the real collectors that are safe to shoot made before 44, not one im afraid may blow my head off from the bolt coming off sheared off the cheap lousy quality steel receiver they were built on, your head man , however long you may not have it feeding a steady diet of full power loads in last ditchers.GOOD luck with that i wish you well.

---------- Post added at 03:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

I have a 3 screw bayo lug ill sell ya for the type 99 you want it. with the nose cap. Also have a few steel buttplates.

I've done the research but I would LOVE to see some evidence of your personal experiences. Especially since they go against all other extensive research on these rifles. These have been extensively tested and found nearly impossible to blow up. That is ANY rifle upon which the mum was applied. These are actual SERVICE rifles.

I think you confuse training rifles with actual service rifles. They are not the same thing. If you don't want the rifles, leaves more for thsoe of us that do.

"Last Ditch" is a term invented by people here in the civilian world. Doesn't exist as an actual term.

I suggest YOU do some research on the subject. Training rifles were never intended to be fired with live ammunition, a rifle with a mum on it was.