The History of Duffle Cuts

[Lashenden]

There are many posts on this forum and others about the ethics and process of repairing 'duffle cuts' on war souvenir rifles. I'm interested to know what the 'primary evidence' for the duffle cut habit is, and whether it occurred in both world wars or just in WWII?

I've heard many unsubstantiated stories of GI's choosing rifles from stockpiles of captured weapons as it's often asserted that this is one of the reasons why bolts are so often mis-matched to mauser rifles.

Does this mean that the collection of souvenir arms was officially tolerated by the US in either war? Do cut Gewehr 98's orginate from WWI or II capture? Is the duffle cut unique to US forces?

Steyr's are also seen with duffle cuts. How might US forcees have come into contact with Austro-Hungarian weapons?

thoughts and facts?

Information

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[Aragorn243]

Collection of weapons was officially tollerated by the US military in WWI and WWII. It was not in Desert Storm as most captured weapons would not be legal to own in the US being fully automatic.

Units however were authorized to return with one captured firearm which could be used for training purposes and had to be kept on the books like the standard armory weapons.

[Lashenden]

So is a duffle cut G98 an end of WWI caputure? Would this be likely a battlefield souvenir, or something collected from a 'dump' an the end of a tour of duty? Is it stretching credibility to associate captured weapons with units of the German army captured by American forces, for instance?

[Aragorn243]

Could be anything. Could be a battlefield capture, could be a battlefield pickup. Could be a trade for a pack of cigarettes. Could be something grabbed from a collection point. Could be stolen by someone checking duffel bags before shipment. They all happened. And of course the story of how they were acquired is always going to be something like I took it off the guy that was about to kill me or my buddy or commanding officer.

[Calif-Steve]

My Uncle was a WWII paratrooper and was in the Band of Brothers unit. He told me after the war had ended he took all of his cigarette coupons down to a weapons surrender site. He traded his coupons for P38's and one Kar98. He had a duffle bag of P38's. He brought back lots of gold stuff and had much until his death. He told me he almost never saw anything on the battlefield as the Germans would pick up their wounded and all of the weapons laying about prior to retreating. A really nice man, he never forgave the Germans for the war.

[Lashenden]

Thanks, guys: Steve - I think your grandfather's recollection sounds like the circumstance for almost every bring-back, and his comment about the Germans not leaving anything behind them sounds very authentic. The 'battefield pickup' myth should probably be ditched compeletely -I've never met a warrant officer who wouldn't have regarded a soldier carring a souvenir while on duty as a problem; "if you've got the energy to carry that german gun, you can carry this jerry can/mortar-round/big piece of timber instead...". I guess what I'm trying to clarify is whether cut G98s, of which there are a significant number, were really WWI souvenirs or were more likely to be from the vast stock of weapons surrendered at the end of WWII. Does anyone know of duffle cut G98s with solid 'WWI souvenir' provenance? My instinct is that most of the cut Gewehrs are probably those in the hands of the police, auxiliary units or private ownership in 1945 (and what was the third reich's view on private gun ownership, by the way?).
The only thing I find a bit of a puzzle is why a WWII GI would want to bring home a 40 year old rifle not much used by front-line troops when there was presumably a plentiful supply of K98s. I don't imagine that the 20-somethings of the 1940s had much of an interest in the relics of Imperial Germany, but you never know!

[Aragorn243]

The Third Reich's gun ownership policy is often debated and a bit hard to figure out depending on where you are looking.

Basically, the Wiemar Republic instituted a policy of full firearms registration. The law abiding complied, others did not. When the Nazis gained power, they used the registration records to seize the weapons of all "undesirables", Jews, political opponents etc. After they disarmed those most likely to resist, they relaxed gun ownership to the general non-undesirable public while continuing the ban on all opponents. When conquering a new territory, they confiscated weapons from all civilians in the new territories. So it's a pretty mixed bag.

[Lashenden]

Thanks Aragorn. On the other hand, presumably a G98 still in the hands of the state in 1945 would have some post-WWI marks to show for it's life of duty? I'm thinking 1920 'Wiemar' re-issue mark, later rearsight leaf, even eagle/swastika stamps?

[Calif-Steve]

WWI duffle bag? Not likely. As I recall the story Sgt York's rifle was stolen aboard the troop that brought him home. He "forget" the serial number so the thief could not identify it with York. So, I guess all of the troops had their rifles with them on the trip home? Likely having a Gew98 along side likey wasn't much of an issue, either, under those circumstances. I would guess WWII is the start of the duffle bag story.

[tahoe2]

the story I heard was from WWII, in that the guys(soldiers) would take the action out of the stock and put both pieces in a duffle bag, however the stock was still too long, so they cut it at the barrel band to fit in the bag, the excess (w/bayonet lug) was often discarded, although some were brought home to be re-assembled later. I have seen some with the repair hidden under the barrel band and I couldn't even tell it was repaired. When done properly they look fine.