Maltby No4 MkI* ???

[garand123]

Hi Gents,

Recently I came across this interesting No4 MkI* Enfield manufactured at ROF Maltby. I don't typically collect Commonwealth firearms so a few of the markings have me a little bit puzzled. The first aspect which is confusing to me is the presence of the *. I was under the impression that the Brits only manufactured the No4 MkI? My second question has to do with the fact that the rifle seems (at least to me) to have two serial numbers? Based on the fact that the bottom number begins with 2 my feeling is that it was put on there by ROF Fazakerley but the rifle isn't marked FTR so I'm wondering what's going on there? Could it perhaps have something to do with the BLR (Beyond Local Repair) marking on the butt stock? Finally I'll note that the bolt and mag are complete un-serial numbered. Un-serial numbered mags seem pretty common to me but what about the bolt?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

- Chris

Hi Gents,

Recently I came across this interesting No4 MkI* Enfield manufactured at ROF Maltby. I don't typically collect Commonwealth firearms so a few of the markings have me a little bit puzzled. The first aspect which is confusing to me is the presence of the *. I was under the impression that the Brits only manufactured the No4 MkI? My second question has to do with the fact that the rifle seems (at least to me) to have two serial numbers? Based on the fact that the bottom number begins with 2 my feeling is that it was put on there by ROF Fazakerley but the rifle isn't marked FTR so I'm wondering what's going on there? Could it perhaps have something to do with the BLR (Beyond Local Repair) marking on the butt stock? Finally I'll note that the bolt and mag are complete un-serial numbered. Un-serial numbered mags seem pretty common to me but what about the bolt?

Any info would be greatly appreciated.

- Chris

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[conec]

It is a No.4Mk1 as defined by the first version bolt release. It was presumably mis-marked at Maltby. These have been seen before and is an interesting variation.

[Peter Laidler]

The large AA or AL or GF etc etc markings/number prefixes are indicative of Indian State Forces

[Lou Cypher]

In my quest of a Lee Enfield n°4 MkI, I met a few weeks ago, one marked with the MkI *, without the notch to release the bolt, only the latch. Unfortunately I couldn't make pictures. It was coded like the one on the picture or M47c don't remember exactly. It was fitted with a brass butt plate and a Mk II back sight. The rifle was dated 1944.
For sure, the rifle I met,went in France in 1944 and never left it since then.

[Beerhunter]

The miss-marked Maltby Mk.1s are a well-known enigma.

[garand123]

The large AA or AL or GF etc etc markings/number prefixes are indicative of Indian State Forces

That's interesting. So are you of the opinion that this rifle was used by the Indians? If that's the case why does it not have an Ishapore Screw installed?

I'll admit that I'm not an Enfield guy, but to me it looks like a second serial number put on there by Fazakerley perhaps when it was sent off for repair (BLR) - the rear sight also appears to be Fazakerley manufactured. If you look closely at the butt plate you'll see a Canadian Broad Arrow.

According to Ian Skennerton:

"No.4 and No.5 rifle serial numbers can readily identify manufacturers. British No.4 rifles have five numbers, usually after one or two letter prefixes. The same letter prefix(es) were used by Maltby, Fazakerley & BSA Shirley, A to Z then AA, AB to AZ, then BA to BZ, CA to CZ &c. Maltby rifle serial numbers commence with a number '1', Fazakerley with a '2' and Shirley with a '3', e.g. 1xxxx for Maltby, 2xxxx for Fazakerley and for Shirley, 3xxxx, after the letter prefix."

I'm still puzzled as to why the bolt is un-serial-numbered.

[Peter Laidler]

It ain't got an Ishapore screw because it probable hasn't been or needed FR by them - where this event takes place!

Take it from me, Fazakerley wouldn't add another serial number and especially when the original one is still present!

I appreciate Ians comments but they refer to the factory serial number sequences. The AA in your case indicates - as I said

No number on the bolt. Simple, someones added a new bolt and not numbered it. Get it checked and then properly set up. But PLEASE......, by someone who knows what he's doing! It could be that it isn't a new bolt but a re-worked bolt. We used to get ten or twenty used bolts at a time hardness tested and then spun-off in a lathe to remove the old number so that they could be used again. We didn't waste much and the Indians certainly didn't!

I could be wrong of course........

[garand123]

Thanks for the reply Peter, I appreciate it!

I won't be shooting the rifle until it's been inspected by a certified gunsmith... With no serial number on the bolt I think it would be a good idea to have the head space checked out.

In terms of the AA marking, would you happen to know a) what the numbers attached to it signify and b) when this may have been done?

I've tried to research this marking but haven't been able to find anything credible on paper so perhaps you could point me in the right direction as it seems you're pretty knowledgeable when it comes to Enfields.

[SpikeDD]

Hello Garand123,
Welcome to the sickness

Young Peter won't say this so I'll have to fill you in... if you saw where he worked, it could be said that he bathes in Enfields...daily.

[limpetmine]

Is that BLR on the wrist a "Beyond Local Repair" notation?