Royal engineers "sappers" tunnel rifle

[Brit plumber]

It looks like it was used in the Star Wars film or possibly inspired by the early mortar firing devices or the smoke discharger on a Bren Carrier type vehicle.

[Roger Payne]

Peter (& everyone else), I know I'm swimming against the tide & I am well aware of the likely effects on my ear drums of firing even a full length SMLE in an enclosed environment without ear protection, but they were desperate times. We did indeed discuss this in the previous thread, in which Nigel came up with another reference to attempts to come up with a standard design for such a nightmare weapon......I have the information he quoted too, but can't remember where to find it! However, additionally,
see 'Beneath Flanders Fields'; Barton, Doyle, & Vandewalle; page 137............'Major RSG Stokes' sketch of a cut down 303 Lee Enfield Rifle, the weapon of choice for some of the tunnellers in The Bluff workings.' There is indeed a sketch of something similar to what Gil has shown. (I'm not saying the weapon in Gil's picture was definitely made for tunnellers as it could have been cut down for a variety of reasons, but it could have been for tunneller's use. Is there any provenance with the photo Gil?). I would concede that it does not say in the text if the tunnellers at The Bluff ever fired their shortened rifles!!

ATB

[Gil Boyd]

Roger et al,
This is the link and from the description try's to make a case for its existence. Like everyone else I was not believing what I was reading because of all the issues on ears/cave in's etc.
So make your own minds up.........................http://www.militaryantiquesmuseum.co...vated+Firearms

24th entry down, I await the experts findings, with all the regulation instilled in weaponry, would an RSM allow such hacking of a service weapon???

[Patrick Chadwick]

Quote from the site provided by Gil's link:

"This is an original British rifle produced by "Enfield" dated 1916. Our gunsmith has modified it so that it closely resembles those cut down and used by British and Commonwealth sappers such as the one in the Hill 62 museum** in Flanders Belgium.

So it is admitted to be a non-genuine carve-up of an SMLE.

.... how on earth are you going to reload it? There is no support to take the sideways force if you want to open the bolt.

** So let's see a photo of that,*** plus evidence that it is genuine and not the result of creative imagination.

***Which I have not found on the Hill 62 website.

I was mistaken about the backsight, there is none. See the photos here:
https://www.ioffer.com/i/wwi-ww1-bri...ifle-560984180

[Peter Laidler]

Roger et al.............. Lets all get into the real world here and just go back to the VERY basics. Forget health and safety and the why's and wherefores and just consider firing that in a xxxxxxg tunnel for heavens sake! It's nothing more that a stun grenade!

[Patrick Chadwick]

I'm not saying the weapon in Gil's picture was definitely made for tunnellers as it could have been cut down for a variety of reasons, but it could have been for tunneller's use. Is there any provenance with the photo Gil?).

Gil's photo is of an admitted fake. Follow his link.

[Patrick Chadwick]

would an RSM allow such hacking of a service weapon???

I presume that is intended as a humorous aside. I learnt to shoot under the tutelage of a WWII-veteran Scots RSM, and I wouldn't even have mentally formulated such a question, let alone permit it to pass my lips.

[Vincent]

Bubba, Bubba, Bubba! What have you done now!

[Roger Payne]

I have now seen Gil's link too - they admit they have done it, but the reference in Beneath Flanders Fields is contemporary (to the time) & remains pertinent. The one shown may be a faked up example but it's a faked up example of an idea that was at least looked into. I'm not disputing the extreme undesirability of using such a weapon - but museums are full of ideas that seemed ok at the time even though they may leave us incredulous now. Look at the Northover projector - that got into production! Another example that springs to mind is the front mount base of the Whitehead mounts for the SMLE/Winchester A5; it's mounted to the rear sight protector which in turn is fixed to the wooden forend of the rifle. How sound an engineering principle is that? But they set up 907 of the buggers!

Sometimes a bad idea does occasionally get off the ground.....

[Ridolpho]

Were there shortages of service revolvers and Colt automatics? Were there restrictions on who could be issued a handgun? These would be the only reasons I could envision for such a silly creation- imagine trying to cycle it quickly! It does resemble a common form of North American cheapo hold-up weapon.

Ridolpho