Enfield bolt bodies for sale on e-bay UK FAC holders BEWARE.

[Simon]

Trust me one this one, in the case of the "Deactivated weapons collector from Manchester" there is very definitely no smoke without fire. And I'm not speaking from hearsay either

[Brit plumber]

Trust me one this one, in the case of the "Deactivated weapons collector from Manchester" there is very definitely no smoke without fire. And I'm not speaking from hearsay either

Is this the one from about 4 or 5 weeks ago? If it is, What gets me is that all the items were laid out in his garden for the press photography, before any investigation had been carried out. Then the press had found him guilty before trial regardless of if there was a case to answer or not.

[Peter Laidler]

I know that we're well off the subject now but are you SURE that there's a national database for deactivated weapons Gil...........? I don't think so somehow! As for a replacement certificate, that isn't easy either - in fact it is impossible in most cases before a date unknown too (although it might be different now I agree). I tried to get a replacement for a MoD SA80 rifle that had been loaned to and deactivated, stamped and certficated at the time by a film company (remember the TV programme Soldier, Soldier ?). Only to be told that they didn't keep duplicated past records because once the weapon was no longer a weapon and........ Anyway, they couldn't issue a duplicate in spite of it being marked and owned by the MoD.

They DID condescend to say that if I brought it down, they'd just have a quick look and do a simple re-issue - for the new fee of course. Furthermore, it'd have to be re-inspected and certificated to the NEW, totally welded up spec. And if it failed, I couldn't take it away unless I had the correct authority to possess it............ I should coco! So we just gave it away anyway and scrapped the rest

[Simon]

What was shown on TV was there purely for maximum effect for the press. It was the stuff that was found elsewhere that will be his undoing!

[Buccaneer]

Dear o' deary me............ At the risk of prolonging this, can anyone tell me where mere 'access' to a firearm is an offence in law.

Certainly Peter I think I can. At the top of my Firearms Certificate and I suspect it is a standard format to all certificates is listed a set of conditions the first paragraph reads:-
"This certificate is issued subject to the following conditions. It is an offence to fail to comply with any of the conditions below. Maximum penalty for non-compliance: six months imprisonment and / or a fine."
There are four conditions listed and condition 4(a) reads:-
"The firearms and ammunition to which the certificate relates must at all times (except in the circumstances set out in paragraph (b) below) be stored securely so as to prevent, as far as reasonably practicable, access to the firearms or ammunition by an unauthorised person"
Paragraph 4(b) goes onto explain the responsibility of the FAC holder where the firearm is in use / transit ect,

I started this thread only to point out that it would be very easy to fall foul of the firearms law without really knowing it, I am sure that the gentleman who allowed his mother to know where his gun cupboard keys were thought he was doing nothing wrong and logic says he was probably right but unfortunately by doing so he allowed access to an unauthorised person contrary to the conditions of his FAC.
This has been quite a lively debate that has wandered away from the point I was trying to make. There have been some very interesting points raised in the way you may or may not "posses" a particular item and that is for the individual to judge however knowing what the firearms law says about any particular item can at least give them a fair chance at staying on the right side of the rules and regulations.

[ZGB]

There is no national data base for de-act guns, where all the info is stored on a single computer system. There is now a system in place that has been operating for the last few years, that the proof house both london and birmingham store all the details of the submited de-acted gun, serial numbers etc and the de-act certificate number it was issued. It did not use to be a requirement to store this info so the records only go back so far. The records can be crossed check by the police in connection with an enquiry and by HMRC for compliance checks with dealers who have imported firearms and then de-acted them.

[Peter Laidler]

That's just as I thought the system was ZGB. They simply wouldn't just giveme a duplicate.

Buccaneer..... Got that and there are two (there's probably more of course but sisters advice costs a bomb.....) intertwined high Court appeal cases relating to that non-statutory 'The Chief Constable says so' condition on UK licences.. Big kind sister is digging them out (but criminal law wasn't her speciality so wait a bit). But both appeals were allowed. However not to bore the pants off the non interested, I'll PM you. The second one is related to the decision of the first and is local to you too.

[Gil Boyd]

Peter,
I was given this info recently when I wanted to have some already deactivated weapons re proofed because the certificates had gone walkabouts when they were passed to me. The info came from the Birmingham Proof house who were going to do the proofing for me that there was such a register so I can only pass on what they told me. It makes infinite sense anyway to have had one from day one.
They charge a flat fee of £28 per weapon you have to TNT it there or if you want to take it in person ie its to big to send .50 for example of which I had two at the time, it could be done on an appointment with one proofer there who specialises in the big stuff.
IMHO the whole mess of deactivation is an absolute joke and totally inconsistant.

I know of an RFD who was passed a 60's deactivated sten gun WITH CERTIFICATE a few years ago which had the firing pin snipped and the barrel filled with lead. Thats how stupid it was then, but one has to hope that the new system is consistant across the proofing house board!

---------- Post added at 09:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:45 AM ----------

Simom,
Apologies, meant to answer you too, yes I am sure there was or is a case to answer somewhere which will come out in the wash I am sure in good time!!!!!!!!!

[Peter Laidler]

Got that Gil and thanks for the clarification - and that from ZGB which is clear and concise. I wouldn't mind betting that if the spec of your two big 50's had changed inbetween times, they'd want it done to the NEW spec. Just as they wanted with the SA80's

It must have been a much later deact Sten Gil. There wasn't such a legal thin in the 60's. You just took your chance in those days. Like the pre-deac spec but obviously deacted MG42 on the Afrika Corps motorbike and side car I had to attend Reading Crown Court for as an expert witness. But they knew best and STILL took the bloke on.......... Stupid or what......., especially when they were hit with substantial costs afterwards. But you can't win 'em all!

[Brit plumber]

ZGB will be able to correct me on this if I'm wrong but unless an old spec gun has been altered, and as long as the pre 95 deac mark is present, the proof house will issue a new certificate to the original spec. I've a few old spec SMGs that have new certs and have double deac markings, the original and the recert. I personally wouldn't bother but some of the dealers prefer to have them redone (Understandable if it's your lively hood).