The New M1's Is This True ?

[wiz1997]

I have a 1943 carbine that I enjoy taking to the range, but don't shoot too many rounds through it so I don't tear it up. A new one would be great to shoot but I'll
agree price is a bit steep.

[imarangemaster]

I doubt if any of us can shoot enough rounds through a USGI M1 carbine to tear it up. Unless it was a mint, 100% correct collector, I would, and do, shoot the heck out of them! They were made to fight wars, so I doubt if we could be too hard on them.

[vintage hunter]

What's the story on that hand guard

The original handguard had issues so I picked this one up at a gunshow couple years ago. Looks to be a light sap wood walnut, possibly Vietnam ear. Guy had a large box full for $5 each.

[USGI]

You should have bought a few more of them! - Bob

[Harlan (Deceased)]

I can see where there might be a market niche for a "brand new" carbon copy Inland M1 carbine, particularly as it is American made. If the quality is reasonably good I will bet you they will sell a few at a very healthy profit and then start edging the price down to keep them moving. I don't think guys like us are their target market demographic, at least not at the current MSRP. 'Grandpa', who carried one in WWII, is probably gone now. But, I'll bet there are a few aging well-heeled baby boomers out there who know little about collecting the original carbines, and don't really care, but figure a brand new one just exactly like 'Daddy' carried in the war, and told them about throughout their whole lives, will be prettier and safer to shoot. I wish the manufacturer success. ChipS

I'm afraid you may be completely correct Chip. When I read of the faked "aging" it made me sick. What is the real point unless to deceive in the future, or for this 'click' of buyers to have what looks like authentic regardless of the inflated prices when they know it is not authentic but they still don't care at all... When they are willing to pay TOP prices for a known faked/fantasy piece and if you did just a little work you can find a REAL, Historical Inlands for the same price, it really makes me wonder.

Are you familiar with Mitchel's Mausers?
At the end of WWII Russia kept every arm they could possibly find from both the Axis and their then allies. They even kept and stockpiled brand new 'Lend Lease' weapons from the USA from back then and just started selling it back to us in recent years...

The Russians stockpiled many, many thousands of the basic German firearm from WWII, including the old WWI vintage design K98 bolt action Mauser. In the first years of WWII, the Russians didn't even have enough personal weapons to even supply their own soldiers, so almost half were sent off to battle completely 'naked' of any defensive arms and they were told to try to find a weapon in the battlefields from dead soldiers from both sides.

Sorry about the History lessen, but it needed to be included as a 'point' --- After WWII the Russians HORDED every weapon they could. They even kept captured and outdated 'Lend Lease' aircraft LONG after they were of any practical use. They took all the thousands and thousands of K98 Mausers they captured and and put them through a HUGE, crude rebuild program... They were stripped to pieces, most all parts refinished crudely, NO parts kept together and most were serialized, stocks stripped and then slavered with an ugly red stain, then put into huge storage facilities where they were seldom even thought about...

The Russian Army was supplied/armed mostly with cheap and easy to make, very deadly AK47's not long after WWII had ended.... They had no need for the old tech K98 Mausers, but they kept HUGE numbers in storage as if they NEVER wanted to run out of guns again. Russia supplied many old bolt action German K98's from their storage to the NVA and VC early in the Vietnam Wars when the French were still trying to control their Asian colony from communists way back then. When the USA was in the war after the French retreated, they still came across some of these old German K98's but most of the North had AK47's manufactured by several Soviet related countries.

In recent years the Russians sold many, many old rebuilt K98's back to the USA. The market was flooded with these old "RC" (Russian Capture) K98's as there were/are known now. They were rebuilt, refinished with Russian bluing, stocks covered in ugly red stain that would only look normal on an old backyard fence, plus Soviet rebuild markings all over them, and they had (have) very little value as far as collectables.... 'Mitchel's Mausers' bought these rebuilds by the thousands and they refinished them, made serial numbers match, turned many into "sniper rifles" using fake parts, etc.... Mitchel's even changed the whole look of their faked K98's -- They have polished bolts to a raw and incorrect silver gleam, as with several other parts. "Mitchel Mauser ads" have showed up all over just about every magazine I read over the past 15 years. It's known all over the World that they are FAKED, but they are still being sold at unbelievably high prices.

I just don't get it why anyone would want a FAKE when there are so many REAL guns around for the same price. It only takes a little work and research to get the REAL THING.

[WarPig1976]

The sad reality is we're a rare bunch that actually cares about the history and not just the looks of these arms. I see it all the time at my club, I acquired both my M1917 and No4 both pristine, off a guy who got caught up in a "keep up with the jones" thing between retired guys at the club a few years back.

[ChipS]

Harlan:

Maybe I shouldn't have said 'carbon copy'. I would never condone anyone actaully counterfeiting a collectable, be it a carbine or anything else. When I posted, my thought was about a clean, newly manufactured carbine that very closely resembled an original and that many lay people out there could buy and shoot, maybe only once or twice, feeling safe and secure before hanging on it the wall in the den to admire and talk about. Perhaps like one notch up from the better commercial carbines we have seen in the past. I would hope the new 'Inland' does not accurately replicate the markings on the original because the thieves will eventually try to sell it to the unsuspecting as an original. This is how it is, was and always will be when it becomes profitable.

I have seen Mitchell's Mausers. They are almost laughable to me but perfectly represent the buyer's niche I had in mind. They shine like the proverbial 'pewter dollar' fresh out of the mint. But, they are now clean, pretty and safe. Like the new 'Inland' carbine (and the Fulton rebuilds), most buyers won't care that they are not 'unmolested', 'correct' and 'matching'. Most true collectors will not buy them but they were not rebuilt for the true collector market. I honestly don't have a problem with this - they are here, they are real and I think they will generate interest and support for sincere conservation and true collecting in some of the buyers. Additionally, I would much prefer a Mitchell rifle, or a new 'Inland', be kicked around in the field and not properly maintained by an unconcerned or uneducated owner rather than a valuable collector piece. The fakers will continue to deceive, one way or the other.

We have debated fake parts and put-together carbines here on the Forum for years. I think Neal Meyers said it best when he said something like 'in twenty years the fakes will be so prevalent that most people won't know the difference'. I'm not sure I agree entirely, I think the real collectors will always know, but many here disagree with me. Unless and until we become a nation governed by the rule of law again we will never stop the fakers. As long as the manufacturer produces a quality product, does not try to deceive the buyer and makes a reasonable effort to prevent aftermarket deception, I will support them - particularly since it's USA production. Semper Fi, ChipS

[ChipS]

The sad reality is we're a rare bunch that actually cares about the history and not just the looks of these arms.

Well said. I just realized that this is the crux of my reasoning re the 'Mitchells' and 'Inlands' out there. We are different and we are few. I think we should try to look at this through the eyes of the masses who will support these kind of business ventures - good people that we all have known, but definitely a little different than us. Hopefully, many of these casual buyers will become seriously intrested collectors and conservators. ChipS

[WarPig1976]

To further my point take RickB's barn wood. Most people would see a pile of scrap where we see an unbelievable treasure trove of history and WISH that pile of "scrap" could talk and we would gladly except the opportunity to dig through it along with Rick.

I look at myself as a caretaker, doesn't mean I don't enjoy them, but I don't do this for the money or the prestige, I do it because all the stuff we discuss here absolutely fascinates me,, the "new" stuff just doesn't.

[DaveHH]

When I arrived in Vietnam in May of 66, if you were shot it was probably with a 98K or a carbine. Later when the NVA started down the trail in force they brought the Chinese type 56 AKs and Simonovs with them.

Gun people come in several sizes and brands: Some don't give a hoot about history and love the next great thing. These types buy plastic and sheet metal guns. Some have to have the newest and most expensive, they buy commemoratives and Perazzis. Some jump without learning about what they are buying. This is the niche that buys Mitchels and these new carbines. Not owning any genuine military arms they think that they are like other guns, new is good, old is bad. Then we have us, I'm one of us. My newest gun is 40+ years old, after that they are around 60 years old and up. I appreciate the fact that they don't make guns like they used to. I enjoy them as pieces of industrial art that will NEVER be done again. Having been in a war only heightens that interest as I saw so many different things still in use. Genuine carbines are still out there and the NRA carbines are as good as any of them. There are gems waiting to be found and the story of how and who made them is an example of what America could and would do in an emergency. 6.5M carbines and 5+M Garands and every part interchanges. No other country in the world could have pulled that off. Buying an ersatz carbine seems insulting regardless of the price. If they are hard to find, which they are not, just have one, but make it a real one. My biggest problem with the new ones is that most are using up scarce spare parts that are needed for the genuine examples.