Inland, Rear Sight

[browningautorifle]

I believe the canted front sight is actually helping you a bit

You have to sit and think about it. The sight is supposed to be straight up and down. It's leaning right. By adjusting to the left you're trying to pull the front sight to the left. If he goes out to 100 I think he'll find his error returns. Then he has to go further left. Return to 50 yds and you'll be shooting too far the other way. I've been through this a bunch of times already...that's why I have the tools to avoid this situation...now.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Bob 'USGI' and Jim ' browningautorifle' are correct here...

[imntxs554]

Here is a picture of a 43 Underwood with the same problem your having and i had, its just not your M1 its on alot of M1's that i've seen, Thanks

So maybe ALOT of barrels are not aligned rignt.


Frank

[INLAND44]

Once you are certain the front sight is vertical, the procedure on adjusting the rear sight is as follows: center the aperture in the sight base. Carefully fire the carbine at 25 yards and take note of the offset if it is not centered. Move the rear sight base in the opposite direction of the offset until you are on center, then re-stake the sight base to the receiver.

[imntxs554]

take note of the offset if it is not centered. Move the rear sight base in the opposite direction of the offset until you are on center, then re-stake the sight base to the receiver.

I understand the first part cause i have centered the rear sight, but move sight base in the opposite direction of the offset, is this to centef the rear sight with the front sight or to shoot point of aim, Thanks

Frank

[Patrick Chadwick]

Think this through slowly - my logic may be at fault. Best to have a rifle in your hands to follow the argument!

I imagine that when you aim, you will hold the blade vertical. If the foresight is canted and you hold the blade vertical, then the rest of the rifle is now canted. Which means that the backsight is no longer above the barrel centreline. And you are then pushing the backsight way off centre to compensate for this.

As browningautorifle points out, this skewed setup means that if you get it on target at one distance, it will still be incorrectly aligned at other distances, the effect being somewhat similar to a scope that is horizontally offset to the barrel centreline. So the only correct treatment is to get that foresight blade back vertically above the barrel centreline!

---------- Post added at 12:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:00 AM ----------

...And another thing. From my own experience, it is very easy to tighten up the front band so that it is slightly skewed and bends the barrel one way or the other. A 30M1 carbine barrel is very flexible! Loosen the front band and slide it forwards to clear the wood. Check that the barrel is not binding on one side. If it does not lie naturally on the centreline of the channel, then when the band is tightened it will be forced over, thus bending the barrel. (Don't laugh guys, I have had that problem as a result of a warped stock!) Now slide on the front band until it clicks into position. Check that the barrel is not being forced to one side. Tighten the band carefully, being especially careful not to twist the band round as you tighten the screw, as this will bend the barrel to one side or the other.

Then you can worry about the sights!

[imntxs554]

I found 2 of these signts for a 44 Inland, thanks

Frank

[browningautorifle]

That's the one I was telling you I had on my M2...

[DaveHH]

These carbines reflect combined manufacturing tolerances. Gus Fisher said that this is the reason that the M1 rifle has a movable front sight. Some carbines line up perfectly, others don't line up at all. They reflect a little bit here a little bit there. If the index marks are slightly off, they may leave a barrel slightly canted. If the receiver threads are a slight bit off, combine that with the index error and you have a noticeable problem. A poorly made hand guard may sit higher on one side and make things look even worse. The people who made these guns wanted acceptability not perfection. If it could be made to hit within standards, that was fine and the gun went through and was issued. My Winchester has visible issues but shoots dead on POA at 100 yds. Point being, don't get on the excitement plan over this stuff, because it is quite normal.

[INLAND44]

I found 2 of these signts for a 44 Inland, thanks

Frank

That sight has been refinished, which really has nothing to do with its utility. What I said about targeting with a new rear sight is simply how it is done - you find by shooting where the sight base has to be in order to line up with the aperture centered and you then stake it in place. Then the windage knob gives you some adjustment capability either for actual wind or a change in ammo. But the aperture should be centered to start with and the sight based shifted as required to account for the peculiarities of that particular carbine. Obviously you would want to first make sure the barrel/front sight are properly installed and not rotated, and that the action is properly hung in the stock with no pressure in any direction exerted on the barrel by the barrel band when assembled. All you have to remember about the front sight is, you move it in the opposite direction of where you want to move the point of impact. When you move a front sight left, it forces you to swing the barrel to the right to aim at the target, which throws the shot to the right. On a carbine, which does not have any front sight adjustment, the barrel may not be indexed with the receiver. Look at the index marks to check. You have to remove the front sight to check this, but you do that and check the fit of the sight key in the barrel as well as the keyway in the sight base. The sight key may have to be replaced or peened. The sight should be a tight fit on the barrel which is why the correct tool is needed for removal/installation, to preserve the fit. A sight can be a tight fit on the barrel and still go on crooked if the indexing key is loose in the barrel or sight, which is why it has to be an exact fit. Frequently, on original carbines, we do not remove the front sight for any reason because it leaves tell-tale marks on the barrel in front of the sight. Even on a rebuild with good finish, removing the sight is usually not done as long as it is tight. So, most people would rather adjust the windage with the rear sight and not mess with the front sight at all. If the front sight blade is bent, you can try to straighten it but it could break off. In that case you have to replace it. The only adjustment possible on the front sight is the elevation. If the carbine shoots low, you shorten the sight blade to raise the POI. Once this is done, you're stuck with it so don't do this without due consideration of all factors, such as the ammo you're using.
The same thing was done with the original flip sight - the carbine would be fired, the sight moved one way or the other to correct windage, then it would be staked in place.
The early model adjustable sight (PI, HI), the presence ofthe small indexing plate on the rear of the sight proves that the sight base was adjusted in the dovetail to initially center the carbine on the target. The small amount of adjustment in the indexing plate then would allow the shooter to make small adjustments in the field to account for an ammo change, for example, then loosen the screw and shift the indexing plate back to the centerline of the sight base. If this were not the case, an aperture adjustment of more than a few clicks off-center would exceed the capacity of adjustment of the index plate.
Here is a properly installed sight base showing a slight field adjustment with the index plate re-centered.