Hello, new member with an old Carbine and looking for any info...

[Avi727]

Hello to all on the forum.

Sorry for my long, first post. I have an IBM carbine and I would like some help identifying as much as I can about it.

For various reasons, my gun collection has been in storage and pretty much unused for about 20 years. Now that my sons are old enough, I decided to teach them how to shoot (starting with a .22 rifle and a .22 pistol).

As I was showing them my M1, they asked about the markings all over the carbine. This piqued my curiosity, because I had never really thought about what the markings really meant, nor had I researched any of the markings (I didn't have the resources available to me at the time of purchase). But now with the inter web, I looked up as much information as I could, and was able to decipher a little bit of info. But of course it's very difficult to identify all of the markings on a rebuilt carbine, which mine most certainly is.

Disclaimer: I know it is a rebuilt import, kind of beat-up, and might not be worth a lot of money, and that's ok to me. In the past, I had a lot of fun shooting this carbine: it's got a good barrel, accurate, and a good shooter. Now I am having a lot of fun re-discovering it with my boys. I will always keep this gun, and pass it along to my kids when it is time.

I purchased this carbine back in 1986 while I was in USAF flight school. It was ordered through a friend who had a license to sell firearms, but I don't remember the particulars. Here are all of the markings that I can find, and what I think they mean. Can anyone here confirm or provide any additional information regarding the markings? Plus, I am curious as to your general impressions on the carbine.


Barrel: "IBM Corp" no date or other markings underneath the front sight area. It's gas port is the integral type.

Lightly stamped Import marking on Barrel Flat Bottom: "IMPORTED BY SHERWOOD INTL NORTHRIDGE CA. U.S.A." I haven't been able to find much information on this company, but understand they imported quite a few carbines in the late 70's early 80's from Israel, among other countries.

Receiver: "IBM Corp" (mostly hidden by rear sight) with SN "3824066" written underneath. I think this means the receiver was built about halfway through IBM's production run, so probably mid-to-late 1943.

Recoil Plate: I didn't see any marks on the plate.

Barrel Band: updated for a bayonet, Has "KI" stamp.

Round bolt: ".U." stamped underneath the right lug.

Interior section of slide: underlined "P1" or perhaps "PI".

Exterior of same section of slide: two separate marks: large "J" and the number "7160091".

Front sight: only one marking to rear of front post. It's hard to make out, I think its an "X", but maybe an "N", or "21"?

Adjustable Rear Stamped Sight: "I.R. CO 7160060" stamped on right side of sight.

Trigger housing: has "INLAND" cartouche on right side, just behind and above trigger guard.

Rotary safety: with stylized "S"? in a circle on bottom half of lever.

Magazine release button: "M" with maybe "00" stamped above the M?

Stock: It is an oval cut, low wood stock. Has a small "W" in left side sling well. It has the longer barrel channel.

The stock's Cartouche on the right side is unfortunately, very worn and hard to see. It looks like it has the "W.R.A." with "G.H.D" underneath it, and a very faint crossed cannon marking next to it on the right. I think all of these markings means this is a Winchester stock, made late in the production run.

It has a rebuild mark on right side over the trigger area, reading: "C-S.A.A." inside of a rectangle. I think this means it was rebuilt (at least once) at the San Antonio Arsenal, but what does the "C" mean? Is there any way to know when the rebuild was accomplished (post WWII or Korea or…?)

Has a large "P" proof mark in a box on bottom of handgrip.

I took the buttplate screw out, but the Buttplate did not seem to want to come off, so I don't know if there are any markings on the inside portion. (I didn't know if there was a trick to removing the buttplate, and did not want to mar the wood or plate by prying it off.)

Handguard: Has 4 rivets. Has "HI" stamped on underside of the guard. I think this means it was a late-production run hand guard, produced by Hillerich & Bradsby Co, for Inland. So I don't think it's a a match for the stock, but it does look good together.

That's all of the markings that I could find on the carbine itself. I still have to find the 2, maybe 3 magazines I received with it, so I don't know if they are original GI issue or not. The sling that came with the gun does not have any writing on the webbing, but does have an interesting mark on the outer part of the snap. It looks like a Star of David (?) with writing above and below it. I cannot make out what the writing is, perhaps "KIIAI7(T?)" on top, and "PIAL"(?) below. Is this unusual or is this a common mark?

Here are a bunch of pictures I took to help explain the general condition of the carbine, and the markings I described above. I'm not sure if they are in any particular order, so my apologies if they are not easy to follow.

Anyway, that's about it. Again, I would appreciate any help identifying any of the markings, or any comments regarding your impressions of the carbine. Thank you for your time and interest. I look forward to participating on this forum.

-Kevin

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[ChipS]

Kevin:

Welcome to the Forum. You have pretty well described the carbiune you have. It is a mix-master that has been through one or more re-builds and has been imported back into US after service in a foreign military. I don't have my books handy but I believe the serial number puts assembly in November or December 1943. The barrel is probably a replacement because it is not dated and the muzzle has been re-crowned at some point. All of the parts are a mish-mash of replacements. The stock is Winchester, the bolt is Underwood, the slide is Inland, etc.

I would say it is a pretty average re-imported mix-master and wiill never be a collector carbine, but should be a fun gun to shoot and definitely does have significant value in today's market.

If you are realy interested in learning about the individual parts manufacture, history and operation/maintenance of the carbine you should invest in a few books. A good starter is M1 Carbine Wartime Production, 7th Edition, by Craig Riesch at less than $20 on Amazon. You can go from there through several good, moderately priced books to the high end War Baby series by Larry Ruth if you please and join the M1 Carbine Club for the most in-depth, up-to-date research information. Most books are considered to contain some errors - the older the book the more errors are probable becaise better statistical data was not available at the time of printing. Be aware, in Carbine collecting there are many uncertainties as far as what is historically 'correct' (as originally assembled) and what cannot be 'correct ' when evaluating the individual parts in a carbine.

Again, welcome and I am sure other members will jump in shortly. ChipS

[Avi727]

Thank you, ChipS

I appreciate the welcome and your insights… It just seemed the more I tried to find out, the deeper the well of information was becoming! No worries, though… I figured it was a mix of parts and not very "collectible", but that's all right. As you said, it's fun to shoot!

Now I realize that as I become armed with some basic knowledge of what to look for (in regards to what might make a gun special or collectable) i can keep my eyes open at the local gun stores for maybe another one. Because as an old friend used to tell me.. "Too much is never enough... And more? That 's always better!"


On a side note… After taking the close up pics of the parts, i realize that this thing really needs a good cleaning. Is there any advice on how to really clean the crud out of some of the areas? For instance, around the rear sight, or the crud around the safety lever? I have read where some people "soak the parts" to loosen up old grease, etc. What do they mean?

Thanks again. This looks like a fun ride…

-Kevin

---------- Post added at 10:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------

PS.. i just ordered the book you recommended… Gotta loooooove Amazon Prime!

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Kevin,

As Chips mentioned, welcome to the forum. Getting books, FM's, any reference material is always interesting and useful. SAA was San Antonio Arsenal.

I noticed the rear sight was adj all the way over to the left. Was that needed when you sighted it in years ago?

You might find answers to some of your questions by browsing old threads or using the search feature.

[USGI]

I believe I saw pictures with the rear sight full over to both sides, probably to give us a look at the stake marks. The recoil plate looks to be a post war cast version. I believe your sling fastener is marked "Klikit-Pull" - Here's a couple of links to threads that show similar slings. Nice Carbine! - Bob

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=41905

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=49471

[laptopps]

Hey Kevin, welcome to the forums! I am very new myself and will only give information that I KNOW 100%. I recently bought a. I.B.M. M1 Carbine (about a month ago) and have been doing research on it. The deeper that I go, seems like there twice as many things to learn. One thing that really helped me is this website that tells all the different maker and parts. I had someone show me the link and I am so thankful that they did. Here it is:

Part markings. (check here first) : Parts Markings / Stocks

These guys are great here and they gave me some VERY great information. Just want to hold back my ignorance and let the wisdom pour forth from them.

Again, welcome to the forums and hope that you have a great time!

[Bruce McAskill]

If you need to clean it and have to get into hard to reach arrears, then a small stiff brush using bore cleaner will work. Brush it on and let it sit for awhile then use one of the spray oil removers like Brake Clean or such and do it outside. Just remember to lightly oil it when clean.

Your parts are all standard USGI. Bolt is Underwood, slide is Inland, stock is Winchester and your recoil plate is post war replacement. Your carbine was made about January 1944 and the barrel is typical IBM. Made to shot and enjoy with your family.

[Avi727]

Thank you for your replies.

Hi Jim. Yes, the rear sights were adjusted full L/R for the pictures (its not THAT bent!!) It is fun looking through the old threads, with some great discussions and information available.

Bob.. You are correct, and thank you for the links. The sling does say Klikit Pull. Based on what I saw last night, it's pretty obvious to me that the sling is a repro. But at least it's a nice sling, and looks good, too. Interesting that something as simple as a sling still has a lot of info out there too.

laptopps, great link! I saw your thread about your IBM. That's a nice carbine, and well done effectively reducing your purchase price!

Bruce, Thanks for your advice cleaning up the gunk. I'll try it soon, and maybe do a little before/after pic session.

I guess when all is said and done, I will probably only change one thing... I think I'll be on the lookout for a "w" recoil plate to at least match the stock. But I'll make sure to avoid Riverbank or Modesto!! See?! I guess you can teach this old dog a lesson or two!

Thanks again, everyone. Have a great day

-Kevin

[Avi727]

Did a little cleaning today… more to follow, but it's looking a ton better. I'm kind of afraid to take apart the trigger assembly and bolt, so I really haven't looked too far for other marks. But after the light cleaning, was able to see that the Hammer has an "AMB" marking. Laptopps, according to the link you provided above, at least there's one more part of my mixmaster from IBM !

Looking better already, more to come later when I have the time needed to do a really good job:

[fn111557]

Avi7272,
Welcome to the forum and the sickness that is M1 carbine collecting. You will find these wonderful old weapons are like potato chips, you can't have just one! Do not be afraid of taking apart the trigger assembly, there are plenty of youtube videos that can guide you through the process. When you decide to do the bolt, unless you have four hands with very small fingers, you should use the proper bolt disassembly tool.