Lee Enfield at War

[Seaspriter]

using an eye disc
As a Yank who was trained in the military and earned a service ribbons for marksmanship, please help me understand this "ordeal" with the eyepiece. When I first saw the pic I was puzzled and confused. The first two things we were taught in Navy/Marine training was NEVER to point a gun at another human unless you intended to kill someone, and to check the magazine & chamber to be sure both were empty.

The training of a marksman started in the mind. Pointing the gun at a drill instructor was just totally the "wrong mindset." I never saw anyone point a gun at a drill sergeant or gunny instructor. If I even thought of such a thing, latrine duty for a year would have been mild punishment; running a bayonet up my butt might be a more realistic punishment -- it was a typical drill sergeant's threat. What was the intent of this seemingly bizarre training exercise?? What am I missing?

[browningautorifle]

The eye disc has a tin hat tgt painted on it and a hole in the center. When you have it close to the eye you can watch the trainee as he releases the shot and observe flinch. Now we're going to go around for a bit about pointing weapons, but it was simple...we cleared the weapon before the class started and then we simply weren't afraid of having pointed at us. That simple. The whole exercise was in the training manual... As Peter pointed out things happen, but I did it lots and never even heard of an accident happening in Canada doing this practice.

There was however a grenade accident in Valcartier once...live 36 in a classroom full of cadets. My woman was one of the children in the building at the time. That was a long time back...some of you remember that...

[Beerhunter]

No matter how hard one tries it is simply not possible to legislate for stupid people.

In 2007, a Thames Valley police "instructor" loaded, aimed, and fired a live round from a .44 Magnum revolver at civilian employee student in a classroom. The list of things that this moron did wrong is a long one.

His "punishment" for this incredibly stupid action was to retire on a police pension. No further action was taken against him.

His victim on the other hand, although he miraculously survived the gunshot wound, has a life sentence . Due the injuries to his bowel, kidney, lung and liver, he is unlikely to work again.

If an FAC holder had done this he/she would still be in prison.

[Seaspriter]

The eye disc has a tin hat tgt painted on it and a hole in the center. When you have it close to the eye you can watch the trainee as he releases the shot and observe flinch

Surprised someone didn't modify a WWI Trench Periscope for this purpose and get out of the line of fire. As a veteran military officer I (and many of my fellow vets) don't like it when someone even points a finger at us because it symbolizes a pistol pointed at us. The Commonwealth gun instructors must be made of pretty tough stuff. (guess you all knew that anyway )

[Peter Laidler]

It's all on the old fashioned concept of risk. You use the most suitable method of training 1 million men. But you kill, say ,4. By the same token some recruits will die during the ferocious Physical Training regieme. It's worth the risk.

[Paul S.]

... By the same token some recruits will die during the ferocious Physical Training regieme. ...

We actually had that happen. We had a 20 year old recruit die of a heart attack during physical training.

[Peter Laidler]

As for the bloke who tossed the recruit a few drill rounds plus a live, well, I suppose you'd call that Darwinian style natural selection! Sorry to be a bit light hearted but even the Army are now rethinking the training system in that good training is better than litigation based training

[Bruce_in_Oz]

I remember talking to a Brit Army Signals Captain who was "attached" to us from the British Army in Germany back in the early 1980s.

He maintained that there was an "official scale" of "service" deaths and injuries for major exercises. In addition, there were "insurance assessors" on the ground as well. When the Divisional Commander ordered, "Turn left NOW!", and an armoured Brigade "rearranged" Herr Schmidt's farm, the "cheque-book warriors" turned up soon afterwards to "ease the pain".

Different times: in those days, whilst on those exercises, you could see off to the east, your potential, operational enemy watching the whole thing through very large optics.

Train hard, fight easy.

[5thBatt]

How would you read it that way?

Untwist what?

Just that the thread was on the subject of piling swivels being fitted or not, i read your reply as, the Canadians never stacked arms & had no drill for it so they removed them.
Sorry ?

[5thBatt]

Australians in the Jungle, note piling swivel.