1943 US made Enfield

[CruciBill]

As has already been said you can't put back the age patina but removing the poly is fairly straight forward. Paint stripper and very fine wire wool works very well it gets off all of the crap but does not damage the wood surface, do NOT be tempted to sand any of the wood just take your time and you will end up with a poly free stock then once its dry you can start to refinish it with boiled linseed oil a little at a time, I have been told the old adage "once a day for a week, once a week for a month them once a month for a year". It's very satisfying to be able to rescue and restore some of the dignity to an old rifle it's what makes collecting really worth while.

Thanks for the input and sound advice. That sounds like the route to take.

---------- Post added at 12:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:19 AM ----------

If you decide to strip the furniture, take Buccaneer's advice. Consider putting the original color back into the wood. See this thread for a pic:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1942 No.4 Mk1*(T) Savage Sniper Rifle (less scope))
Savage originally used a red mahogany stain on their birch stocks.

The finish on the rifle in that link would be great. Is there a specific brand of red mahogany stain to match the original or is it a matter of trial and error?

[Peter Laidler]

The trap that amateurs fall into isn't the actual use of fine sandpaper but the way they USE the fine sand paper - or wire wool now that I think about it. What they do is allow the paper or wire wool to run into the grooves, slots, screw holes etc etc of the wood. Then you're left with rounded edges when what you want are crisp, clean and clear square edges.

How many times do you see a reasonably well prepared fore-end, well oiled with linseed but where the enthusiastic amateur had made a decent job of the surface but rounded everything off. Ideally you only ever use sandpaper on a sanding block to prevent this but that's not really an option on rifle woodwork (mind you, you can on a Mk2 Bren butt that is flat and chunky). All that work and you've got to tell them that it's crap! How politely you word it is up to you of course - but you'll never get the square edges back again.

While on the subject of crap work or workmanship, ex Carlisle Armourer apprentices will tell you that in the practical rifle classroom under 'Paddy' Reilly and 'Joe' Duffield, they had a garbage bin marked 'FIRE-WOOD'. As you plodded your way through woodworking practice, fitting foreends, butts, making good, repairing, patching etc etc under their supervision, your work was all marked in stages of repair. If a patch, plug or repair was crap, you'd be told to cut it out and start again. Quite a simple job as a rule because you could just cut the crap work out and start again with a slightly bigger patch or plug or whatever. You know the sort of thing....., bad fit, uneven patch, not square, unevenly plugged screw hole sort of thing. But if your long laboured bit of work was beyond repair, you'd hear a dull clunk while you saw it being tossed into the garbage can marked fire-wood. Then you'd go back and start again. Only this time you'd be under even closer supervision.

My work kept many houses warm!

[CruciBill]

Well said Peter Laidler. Though I am not a complete stranger to hand finishing wood, I have no experience with firearm repair/refurbishing/restoring. It occurs to me that sometimes the best course of action is none at all. A previous caretaker of this rifle should maybe have done nothing, thereby letting the rifle tell it's own story. I'm going to undo a bit of what's been done and then determine where to go from there. Hopefully no fire-wood.

[Seaspriter]

Is there a specific brand of red mahogany stain to match the original or is it a matter of trial and error?

Bill, this is a very good question that doesn't have an simple answer. Here's how I'd proceed:

1) Use varnish remover on the polyurethane coat. Remove the resulting gunk first with a course rag/old towel. Then remove remaining residue with fine wire/steel wool. Then remove any of the wax that might remain in the pores of the wood (from the varnish remover) with mineral spirits or turpentine. Then let dry.

2) You have two choices for staining: an alcohol/water based dye (which often gives a much more even coat -- I'd try this given the uneven woodwork from the earlier sanding). Once dry, then you could use a light coat of oil based stain. For the alcohol/water based dye, try Constantines (Constantines Wood Center - Woodworking Supplies and Tools - Fort Lauderdale, FL ). For the oil based stain, try MinWax Red Mahogany (available at most home & hardware stores). The entire staining process is somewhat trial and error because each gun's wood acts a little differently so go lightly as you interact with the finish.

3) Once finished with the staining, wait a day for the oil to set, then go over with BLO until there are no dull areas (which are the places the wood is dry and soaking up the oil). BLO is best used as a sealer, not a finish. Here's where I depart from traditional advice (which is based on wartime field conditions): Be sure to wipe all excess BLO off the surface -- if you let it build up as a surface coat, it will eventually turn yellow, then brown, then muddy. (Believe me on this one -- I, and my father before me, have restored antique weapons since the 1930s -- BLO oxides oxidizes over time, and RLO is worse). The last coat of BLO should be rubbed hard with a soft cloth, which heats the surface, further stabilizing the chemistry of the BLO, leaving a burnished "hand rubbed" finish. To prevent the BLO from oxidizing, I then put a very light coat of tung oil over it. (This was the recommended procedure for M-1s because tung oil is more durable, doesn't oxidize, is more moisture resistant, and has better anti-fungal properties.) The other finish option I like to use is to apply a light coat of wax; my preference is British museum wax (brand name: Briwax, which available at Ace Hardware).

The trap that amateurs fall into isn't the actual use of fine sandpaper but the way they USE the fine sand paper - or wire wool

Captain Laidler is spot-on with this advice. I might further add that sandpaper (because it actually cuts grooves to remove wood like a tiny chisel) should only be used for wood removal, not for removing dirt, old finish, grimy BLO, etc. Fine grades of wire/steel wool is the proper tool to use to prevent destruction of patina (because wire/steel wool acts as a ultra-fine scraper, not a chisel, it can thus be controlled with careful repetition and hand pressure).

Good luck.

[Seaspriter]

Just a note:
If you want to see the estimated month your Savage was built, here is the link:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1943 No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (Mfg by Savage))

[CruciBill]

Bill, this is a very good question that doesn't have an simple answer. Here's how I'd proceed:

1) Use varnish remover on the polyurethane coat. Remove the resulting gunk first with a course rag/old towel. Then remove remaining residue with fine wire/steel wool. Then remove any of the wax that might remain in the pores of the wood (from the varnish remover) with mineral spirits or turpentine. Then let dry.

2) You have two choices for staining: an alcohol/water based dye (which often gives a much more even coat -- I'd try this given the uneven woodwork from the earlier sanding). Once dry, then you could use a light coat of oil based stain. For the alcohol/water based dye, try Constantines (Constantines Wood Center - Woodworking Supplies and Tools - Fort Lauderdale, FL ). For the oil based stain, try MinWax Red Mahogany (available at most home & hardware stores). The entire staining process is somewhat trial and error because each gun's wood acts a little differently so go lightly as you interact with the finish.

3) Once finished with the staining, wait a day for the oil to set, then go over with BLO until there are no dull areas (which are the places the wood is dry and soaking up the oil). BLO is best used as a sealer, not a finish. Here's where I depart from traditional advice (which is based on wartime field conditions): Be sure to wipe all excess BLO off the surface -- if you let it build up as a surface coat, it will eventually turn yellow, then brown, then muddy. (Believe me on this one -- I, and my father before me, have restored antique weapons since the 1930s -- BLO oxides oxidizes over time, and RLO is worse). The last coat of BLO should be rubbed hard with a soft cloth, which heats the surface, further stabilizing the chemistry of the BLO, leaving a burnished "hand rubbed" finish. To prevent the BLO from oxidizing, I then put a very light coat of tung oil over it. (This was the recommended procedure for M-1s because tung oil is more durable, doesn't oxidize, is more moisture resistant, and has better anti-fungal properties.) The other finish option I like to use is to apply a light coat of wax; my preference is British museum wax (brand name: Briwax, which available at Ace Hardware).


Captain Laidler is spot-on with this advice. I might further add that sandpaper (because it actually cuts grooves to remove wood like a tiny chisel) should only be used for wood removal, not for removing dirt, old finish, grimy BLO, etc. Fine grades of wire/steel wool is the proper tool to use to prevent destruction of patina (because wire/steel wool acts as a ultra-fine scraper, not a chisel, it can thus be controlled with careful repetition and hand pressure).

Good luck.

Off to the hardware store tomorrow morning. I appreciate all the good advice.

---------- Post added at 04:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:29 PM ----------

Just a note:
If you want to see the estimated month your Savage was built, here is the link:
Milsurps Knowledge Library - 1943 No.4 Mk1* Enfield Rifle (Mfg by Savage))

So roughly June-July of 1943. Nice to know.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:31 PM ----------

Question. Is acetone interchangeable with mineral spirits and turpentine or would it be too aggressive?

[Brian Dick]

Forget the Minwax and order some Chestnut Ridge military stock stain. They're located in Pennsylvania. It's alcohol based and gives the exact reddish color you're looking for.

[browningautorifle]

Is acetone interchangeable with mineral spirits and turpentine or would it be too aggressive?

Acetone melts many things and is different from the others. Mineral spirits and turpentine I think are to mix with paint and thin it more... I would just use something like 1850 furniture stripper to reduce the varnish and then rinse off. Don't leave the wood wet, use paper towel to dry and then easy dry it after. No fast heat or you'll warp it. You'd use acetone to remove the lot numbers painted on an ammo can.

[Seaspriter]

Acetone melts many things and is different from the others.

BAR is right on. Be careful using acetone -- it's fingernail polish remover and dissolve or melt a lot of things. Mineral spirits is the synthetic version of turpentine and dissolves the liquid wax that is an ingredient in many varish/paint removers to prevent evaporation while the chemicals dissolve paint. You don't want wax in the wood which will prevent the stain from penetrating. Turpentine will not raise the grain of the wood, nor warp it; but water will, as BAR warned.

Forget the Minwax and order some Chestnut Ridge military stock stain. They're located in Pennsylvania. It's alcohol based and gives the exact reddish color you're looking for.

Take Brian's advice over mine -- he's a professional and I'm an amateur. Brian restores Enfields for a living and has years of experience; I trust him 100%; he's restoring a Long Branch sniper for me. You can't go wrong following his path.

[CruciBill]

[QUOTE=Brian Dick;330190]Forget the Minwax and order some Chestnut Ridge military stock stain.QUOTE]

Thank you. I looked them up last night after reading your reply.