BSA Long Lee (?) Trainer - designation?

[Jc5]

Member "boltaction" above nailed it with his assessment. I don't have much to add to what he said (it is a commercially produced BSA rifle, intended for sale to civilians, not a conversion from a military rifle), except to say that it was not a conversion from anything---it was a never a .303. It was built from the start as a .22. The BSA company advertised such rifles heavily in the years leading up to WWI. I will include a section on them in the Lee-Speed book; there were several variations. (Promo, please look for a private message from me. I would be grateful if you would let me use a photo of this rifle in the book.)

One bit I can add is that Clabrough & Johnstone had nothing to do with this one. I have studied their conversion work and this isn't one of theirs. (There is an excellent study, BTW, on the Clabrough & Golcher/Clabrough & Johnstone companies, titled "J.P. Clabrough - Birmingham Gunmaker" by Lawrence Shelton, published in 2013. It was reviewed in the March/April 2015 issue of "Shooting Sportsman.” The story is interesting: a Yorkshire gunsmith takes ship for America around 1860, crosses the country in a covered wagon and ends up in San Francisco, where he builds up his own gun business. Educating himself on the market for good English shotguns in the American West, he returns to England (Birmingham this time) to open a factory with his brothers to build guns for the American market, and sell them in his San Francisco shop, which he does successfully (percussion, hammer, and hammerless models in turn) until the McKinley Tariff stops his operation in its tracks. Shelton details all the models and variations, production figures, etc., and tries to evoke the era. It also covers the British Bull Dog pistols that Clabrough imported in large numbers. Lots of good stuff there about shotguns, the British Gun Trade, the market for shotguns among shooters and hunters in the American West. There is not much Lee-Enfield-related, but he notes the .22 Lee and Martini SMRC conversions, and identifies some markings to be found on them.

If you look for the book, be careful not to mistake it for an earlier (very different) book on Clabrough with a similar title that Shelton did back in the 70s. This one is a totally new book, not a second edition.

[boltaction]

My bad---I completely missed that caliber stamp on the barrel in the original photos and thanks, Promo, for providing the excellent other photos of the barrel with top wood off. Definitely a purpose built .22. I have two addictions in gun collecting. One is Long Lees and nice SMLEs, the other is Ross heavy barrel Mk II target rifles. If I lived close to you I would happily relieve you of the burden of owning those lovely, errr, I mean horrible, ugly Lee Speeds and that terrible .22. 😈

Enjoy!

Ed

[Promo]

Hi Jeff, thanks for the very informative and reliable answer. I highly appreciate that. Your PM was answered directly in an E-Mail.

I still have one question left - I learned now that this rifle was never military adopted, and bases on a civilean rifle. So how do I correctly name it? "Commercial BSA Long Lee .22 rifle"?

Ed, if you'd had something to trade, there is always a solution to get something even across oceans. Would you at least enjoy to see the pictures of those two rifles? I didn't plan to post them, but if you want to I can show it in a seperate thread. Attached just a snapshot of one of them

[PrinzEugen]

I have more or less identical rifle - it's a joy to shoot. Only slight issue is getting bullets up the pipe on cold mornings with freezing fingers!

[bigduke6]

I have more or less identical rifle - it's a joy to shoot. Only slight issue is getting bullets up the pipe on cold mornings with freezing fingers!

Have room for it PE if you feel the need to part with it....

[boltaction]

Hi Jeff, thanks for the very informative and reliable answer. I highly appreciate that. Your PM was answered directly in an E-Mail. I still have one question left - I learned now that this rifle was never military adopted, and bases on a civilean rifle. So how do I correctly name it? "Commercial BSA Long Lee .22 rifle"? Ed, if you'd had something to trade, there is always a solution to get something even across oceans. Would you at least enjoy to see the pictures of those two rifles? I didn't plan to post them, but if you want to I can show it in a seperate thread. Attached just a snapshot of one of them

Thanks! Yes I would like to see photos. I have imported in from Europe before and it is not that bad a process so could certainly be done. The only thing I would have to trade is cash really, since the only sniper related items I have left are a couple of Ross WWI sniper scopes, an FN with scope which is really more of a marksman rifle and wouldn't be ship able anyway and my LB sniper which i want to hang onto for now. I do have lots of other things.... You can send me pictures to elghardy at gmail.com.

Cheers

Ed

[englishman_ca]

The Birmingham Nitro Proof markings on the left hand side reinforce are post 1955. There is a small date code marking of crossed flags with letters, detail pic would tell in what year the rifle was civvy proofed.

I note that there are earlier proof marks on the right hand side reinforce too. First I was thinking that one set was when it was 303 and later it was reproofed when converted to .22, but I notice that both sets are .22rf.