1916 BSA... Questions

[Frederick303]

I maintain a database of Irish rifles. Looking at that F # I had it in my database of Irish .22 cal. conversions.

If you want more info got to the gun-boards and a lot of the information is under the posts listed.

[Jim Long]

[Jim Long]

F303 I have a better pic of it I'll post . The F I can been more clearly. Def not in Skennerton's. Thank you, I really appreciate your input

[husk]

I just picked up a BSA 1918 MkIII* that is a true time capsule. I'll start a new thread in the next day or two with pics.

[Jim Long]

F303 Would that S/N you found been amongst barreled actions sent over?
Here's the pic I promised of the F I

FWIW Other side


I never have mentioned that though this has a tubed barrel done by Parker-Hale the muzzle is devoid of any lettering. Much thanks to all that have posted especially Frederick303.

[Frederick303]

The rifles were sold out of Irish stock in 1991.

The total number sold was 889.

All were sold to century arms, along with 5000 No4 MK III rifles in that same sale.

A survey of 66 rifles (7.42 % sample size) shows the lowest serial number being AM544, the highest AM1534 or 990 total range.

The early ones seem to have been ex-RAF guns and have proof marks dated to~ 6-Feb-1945. Conversions supposedly ended in 4-April 1945.

how many were bought from the MOD between 1945 and 1951 is unknown.

A number of the trifles show they were originally Irish rifles sent over to BSA be re-tubed to .22 cal by Parker Hale in the 1951 time frame (BB date).

most of these 1951 rifles have a small FF mark in a circle on the underside of the forend, just in front of the triggerguard. Not sure if your rifle has that or not. The mark in on the wood, not the metal on these post was re-tube

[Jim Long]

It turns out my rifle is very much like this one found in this thread @ Another Enfield #2 MK IV Trainer ... CAI Import - AR15.Com Archive
with a sleeved Parker-Hale barrel on a 1916 BSA receiver. Mine also is marked just to the rear of the charger bridge below the CAI import mark: No 2 MK4 22 U KING. But it differs in that it has the 22No2C bolt head and an AM s/n.


I like MVolkJs' comments in the thread and will probably describe it (underlined) the same.
"These rifles were a batch of rifles made up for the Air Ministry (that's what AM stands for).They aren't technically No.2 rifles as the No. 2 spec indicates a solid barrel, not a tubed one. What the official designation for them was I have no idea, as these were specifically Air service rifles. It's probably safe to call them Pattern '14 .22RF No. 2 s as that was the last accepted spec to use the Parker Rifling method of conversion to .22, though that spec no longer existed officially at the time these were converted (estimated to be around 1936)"

[Frederick303]

It turns out my rifle is very much like this one found in this thread @ Another Enfield #2 MK IV Trainer ... CAI Import - AR15.Com Archive
with a sleeved Parker-Hale barrel on a 1916 BSA receiver. Mine also is marked just to the rear of the charger bridge below the CAI import mark: No 2 MK4 22 U KING. But it differs in that it has the 22No2C bolt head and an AM s/n.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2sp4ejij-1.jpg

I like MVolkJs' comments in the thread and will probably describe it (underlined) the same.
"These rifles were a batch of rifles made up for the Air Ministry (that's what AM stands for).They aren't technically No.2 rifles as the No. 2 spec indicates a solid barrel, not a tubed one. What the official designation for them was I have no idea, as these were specifically Air service rifles. It's probably safe to call them Pattern '14 .22RF No. 2 s as that was the last accepted spec to use the Parker Rifling method of conversion to .22, though that spec no longer existed officially at the time these were converted (estimated to be around 1936)"

Several mistakes with that:

1) AM conversions prior to 1945 were Air ministry guns, but conversions started in 1940 and ended in 1945. There are certainly Air Force marked .22 cal No2 MKIV rifles with stock discs from the 1930s, but none were AM marked.

2) a large number of the AM conversions higher than serial number AM 544 seem to have been done with returned Irish rifles.

3) the AM 544 to AM 1534 serial number rifles were sold out of Ireland, not out of the UK. All were bought by Century arms and so marked.

[Jim Long]

Yes that's all correct But the rifles were sold to Ireland from UK stores.

It will be observed my rifle is marked No 2 MK 4 & has the U. King. stamp which I take to mean United Kingdom. Rifles marked No 2 MK 4 were sold from United Kingdom stores to Ireland before CAI imported them to the good old USA.

Among the No 2 MK 4 specifications is that they have a solid .22 cal barrel not a sleeved or tubed or relined barrel. It was put forward in that post that perhaps it would be more accurate to say rifles with sleeved or tubed or relined barrels are Pattern ' 14 No 2 rifles since that was the last time a sleeved or tubed or relined barrel was specified. I'm just saying I like that definition, but it wont really amount to a hill of beans (except us Enfield types) because the rifle will always be marked No 2 MK 4

[Frederick303]

Well since you and MVolkJ have obviously done more research then I, I will leave you to your ideas.

cheers.