Early No. 4 Mk.I Trials scope brackets

[Surpmil]

Roger, in both cases it was of the "Rose Bros." rounded shape, as opposed to the more square Dalgliesh (sp?) shape, very well moulded, with very "low" numbers on the caps and cradles, and a browned finish with no serial number. The other was of the same general configuration and had a trials No.4 serial on it, apparently the only one it had ever had. Because it was dug out of the back lot of H.W. English I have reason to think it was not touched after the early or mid 1950s.

I have photos somewhere. I just recall that even those apparently very early brackets had angles on the rear pad mating surfaces that did not correspond exactly to the angles on the rear pads of the two Trials Ts I had at that time. Now, that could all be within the range of acceptable tolerances, but the standard of work at RSAF(E) was pretty darn high even in 1940/41 and I don't think that was the stardard they were working to.

Of course there are other possibilities, such as rejects from early production that were left hanging about until sold off. English's had hundreds of loose brackets into the late 1980s even, and had sold about 5000 MkI scopes in various states of repair over the decades since they bought them from HMG in the 1950s. The damn things featured in their catalogues for decades. As I've mentioned before, when the place was scrapped out in 1986-87, a box of several hundred brackets went to the scrap.

[Roger Payne]

Cheers Rob. So, really, they looked to be RB brackets, but better finished than the later run of the mill, & with just one rifle serial, &/or a serial suggestive of a Trials rifle that it/they were mated to? Can you recall if the cradle clamps bore letter prefix or suffixes? I'm just curious, as some do & some don't - maybe there was an evolving system, maybe not.....?

I've had several Rose Brother brackets that did not bear the typical JG or KD examiners' marks, but RBG2 or RBG4 stamped within a circle. These are not common but are around. I still have one. It would be nice to say that these were early brackets, but the few I've had came without their scopes or with scopes that could well have not been their original issue with said brackets. I'll have a look to see what rifle serial(s) there is/are on the one I still have. Of course, they might not be early at all. It's presumption, but I should imagine there's a fair chance RBG stood for Rose Brothers Gainsborough. I imagine the 2 or 4 might relate to a specific production line or examiner within the factory.

[Surpmil]

Roger, the cap numbers on one I don't recall, on the other they were 42 and 43 respectively IIRC. No letters and no other markings of any kind as I recall.

Basically they looked exactly as we see on the few remaining original matching trials No.4 (T)s. Obviously the serial number on the one bracket would have been added later as that was not SOP until after the war was it, IIRC?

[Roger Payne]

Cheers Rob. Yes, I think the bracket numbering with rifle serial started just post-war.

I was moved to get off my posterior this evening & do a quick 'straw poll' of about a dozen brackets that were to hand, approximately half each of Rose Brothers & Dalgleish. ALL of the Dalgleish brackets bore cradle clamps with letter suffixes, & NONE of the Rose Brothers (which bore just numbers alone). Now, I've been collecting this stuff for a number of decades, but it took till tonight for me to look at them systematically..........though of course I'm aware that twelve is hardly a statistically significant number to start generalising, but it'd be interesting to see if others follow this trend. I excluded one bracket from the L42 era that had clearly been re-stamped (though it did follow suit anyway!).