ATF Called today - DURING THE TEA PARTY

[2571]

You said you were 100% legit (even though you were not). It seems like minimal inconvenience for having the license. You knew inspection was possible when you applied.

I'm sure no one welcomes the ATF or any other fed or local LEO into their home, but I can't imagine getting that upset by a routine check.

Seems like more a PIA than anything else.

[0311Shooter]

I have met some of the local ATF guys and other than having a BIG pistol on their hip, they are just like you and me.

I don't fear an audit, my books are clear and consise. I took the bound book form on one of the pages and made a Spreadsheet like it. Have two lists, one for every gun (personal) and a C&R list.

It comes in handy when you want to check serial numbers and do an inventory.

[Rob13]

So ATF is doing more checks as a project this year? Getting ready for the gun grab! They will have to hire millions to collect all the guns in US! That would solve the unemployment situation, maybe they will use Acorn to do it.
It is coming folks!

[dobek]

2571 - I was legit - just not logged exactly like she wanted -

Careful throwing stones -

Steve

PS - why dread it - because I don't believe anyone from the government is my friend - and having an accounting background, I've been through more audits in my life than I can count - and 9.9 times out of 10 an auditor has to find something to justify their job - -

[M1Riflenut]

When they called,do you remember what the phone number was? I've had several calls on my caller ID from a Washington DC phone number. My answering machine has been broken for awhile now so I usually look at the caller ID to see who called. I don't know anyone in DC. They even tried on sunday afternoon. I have'nt been home much lately,either at work or the hospital as my brother had a stroke Easter morning.

[dobek]

When she called me it showed as "Restricted" - but she left me a local cell phone number (for me 916 area code) - - - as it turns out she lives just around the corner from me (mile and a half or so) - - - is there a "local" office in your neck of the woods?

I would still love to know the "real" reason for the visits - best I could get out of her was "a fact finding project" - - - so don't know if they are looking for people using their c&r as a dealer (I changed emphasis in my collection so I had a fair number of sales versus purchases with my last renewal) - - or if they are trying to intimidate collectors to weed some of us out (shades of what Clinton did with 01's way back when) - - but mine is strictly collecting, no Mexican connections.....

Steve

PS - that white stuff on the ground is all gone - isn't it???

PPS - I'll say a prayer for your brother - strokes are a nasty thing to work through

[M1Riflenut]

Thanks Steve. I'm actually getting two different numbers now on my caller ID,both from Washington DC. I'm tempted to re-dial them but then why go looking for a headache?
Just for peace of mind I reviewed my book and I'm good to go anyways,or so I hope. Did she ask to see the guns in the book? I've read some folks have had to prove they have them. I'm wondering if it only involves the ones in your book or ALL of the collection? Most of my collection was bought before I had the C&R and those are not entered in my book although I do have a printed inventory of them tucked in it. IIRC,one person said they asked to see their ammo supply as well.
Yes the snow is finally gone,just today I noticed the buds starting to appear on the trees

[dobek]

On the phone she mentioned that she wanted to look at my book and inventory - this bothered me a bit - book is no problem - but my understanding is she needs a specific reason (ie: investigating a crime) to see any of my guns.

I know one other member on this forum actually got all his guns out for the agent -

Well - I decided I would play wait and see - but if she wanted to see my inventory I was going to draw the line - I was going to question why she wanted to see any of my guns - and best I was willing to do was show her a specific gun or two IF she had a valid reason to see them - - and I was going to let her know that they are secured in no particular order - wrapped in gun socks, so I would be a while to get it.... then I was going to let her sit for a loooong time...

I met with her on my front porch - and had no intentions of letting her in the house - leave alone into my safes. I have a covered porch with nice wicker furniture, so it was a pleasant place to meet.

but as it turns out - she never asked to see any of them - she did ask what my main area of collecting was -

When I setup the appointment with her I did question her about "why my house" - I told her I expected to someday get a call to bring my books down to their offices - she did offer to meet me downtown at their offices if I wanted (and didn't sound like that was an issue) - she said she lives out in my area and it would be easier at the house (I think she liked working close to home on a Friday) -

Read the inspection guidelines - there isn't really that much they can "demand" - and in my case - they didn't ask for anything that I thought was outside of reasonable...

She did ask when was the last time I inventoried my collection - and I told her it had been a while - Only I know the combination to the safes and my wife knows where to find the combination - that's it - - - but it raised a good point - what if - (i know not likely) - but what if one or two guns were missing - would I notice it right away - - - So I am taking her advice and going through the safes - it gives me an excuse to check / clean each gun - as well as update my "inventory" book that I keep - I keep a book with pictures, details, purchase info and more importantly current value info (value with a value as of date) - so when I croak my wife / kids don't sell everything for pennies on the dollar.

So - when all was said and done - I was apprehensive and guarded - but it really wasn't a big deal - nothing less than a nice 15 minutes stop by -

My advice -
--> go to their offices (but don't be afraid to have them to the house) -
--> answer their questions truthfully and honestly (but don't run at the mouth and give them reason to question more) -
--> be receptive to suggestions (but remember they are an auditor paid to find things wrong - the ATF website says 40% have no problems - that means they find fault with 60% of the people)
--> be pleasant and not confrontational (never have a wee'ing contest with the government)
--> know your rights (but don't try to tell them their job)
--> play by the rules and you'll have nothing to worry about

Hope this all helps

Steve

[Bruce Koligian]

Here in Fresno, CA, every FFA I've spoken to charges at least 100 bucks plus 10% of the sales value of the firearm to do the transfer. That's reason enough to keep one's nose clean and have a C & R. B.K.

[deano41]

Good report and sound advice Dobek. And BK, that's another reason I have a C&R! Granted, here in California, it won't buy you a cup of coffee in regards to handguns, but it sure is handy buying C&R long guns (which is what I'm interested in anyway) either at gunshows or from out of state.

Dean (the other one)
OFC-Orange County Chapter