A genuine No.4 Mk1 "T" that is not marked T or TR?

[No4Mk1(T)]

The rifle has the S51 and the "S" mark on the cut off block. Bolt and forend of course match, magazine in un-numbered but original as the grease is unbroken. No middle sling swivel and the screw's on the pads are staked.

Missing, the "T" of course and a scope number on the butt. I do not remember if the special inspectors view mark in the back of the receiver is there, it has been so long since I went over it.

Your rifle is virtually identical to mine Lance. Mine did have the inspectors marks on the back of the receiver and the rifle serial number on the butt wrist as seen with the butt removed.
I have no idea if the scope was added well in-service or by someone after but it zerowed dead on!

[burpgun]

I'd like to say that "IS MY LEE ENFIELD SNIPER RIFLE A FAKE!" is a wonderful resource for a Lee-Enfield novice like myself. The article provided that quick "checklist" of points to look for. Had that reference not been available, I may not have taken the time to investigate the rifle further. I thought the article allowed for exceptions to the T and TR markings. I have handled many original WWII era U.S. service rifles over my thirty plus years of collecting them. My instincts told me this rifle may be one of those exceptions. It just "smelled" right.

Thank you Mr. Warner for taking the time and effort to produce that article! Also, thank you to all of the other very knowledgeable folks who commented on this rifle, and to those who make this wonderful site possible. It is quite gratifiying to me that some of you have found this thread interesting or useful.

However unlikely, if anyone should stumble upon telescope and mount #2795 I would dearly love to hear from you. Regardless, it is my intention to find an appropriate scope to mount on this rifle, even if the numbers don't match. I still plan to take this rifle to the club and shoot it occasionally. Even with it's current scope it still attracts quite a bit of interest at the range. My grandfather was a Royal Marine during WWII and later a RCMP mountie. He had a keen interest in rifles and shooting and passed that interest to me at an early age. I know he would have approved!

PS: I always dreamed of, but never thought I would actually be able to own (afford) a rifle that had passed through the doors of the legendary Holland & Holland factory.

Mike

[Peter Laidler]

The nearest telescope I have ever come to 2795 from the several thousand that I have ever worked on was 2791. Your missing telescope will be a Wiliam Watson scope, dated 1943. Incidentally, 2791 lives/lived in Canada!

[218bee]

Mine's serial number is AV364x.
Can anyone render an opinion as to when in 1943 it was made? The socket says 1943, but the scope is a '44. The buttstock numbers to both the rifle, and the scope....

Also, did the 1943 rifle receive a 1944 scope, when it went through Holland & Holland?

Scope is a Mk II, marked 1944. OS 1650 A.
Serial on scope is: 16481. This number is on the stock wrist..

Just trying to get a time frame on this ...


Thanks...

218bee

[Lance]

I have AV3602, which is paired with a Watson Mk II s/n 14579, which is not dated but assumed 1944 production. On the flip side I have scope #15307 which was paired with rifle B36329, which one can assume is a 1944 BSA.

So to answer your question, your rifle was made in late 1943, delivered to H&H where it most likely rested in a pile of other rifles and then converted and paired in mid-1944. Hypothetically of course.....

[TerryChambers]

I have to say that my understanding of the T and the generation of markings associated with it, which began with Terry Warner's article a couple of years ago, has expanded greatly as a result of this post and these threads. Cheers, gentlemen.

[Peter Laidler]

Lance, I have Watson 14589, a Mk2/1(W) conversion. That's a Mk2 converted to Mk2/1 with a desiccation screw fitted

[LithgowHT]

Was I seeing things or did it look like a Lithgow star under the butt?, have any rifles like this ever appeared with a genuine holland and holland but and left over scope, I heard a few were getting around Canada lately...

[burpgun]

For those that may be interested. After closer inspection I found the rifle's serial number was also stamped on the fore-stock. It was on the bottom, nearest the muzzle.

[No4Mk1(T)]

That’s good and as it should be.
So the next big question would be does it have it’s serial number on the right side of the barrel just forward of the receiver ring? It can usually be seen by removing just the upper hand guards.
And yes I did notice that every question I have asked of you requires some kind of rifle disassembly. Sorry about that.