anyone ever heard this statement??

[Pelago]

I have read it, and seen it, and my version may not be the most accurate, however here is the gist of it

"If you want to hunt buy a mauser, if you want to target shoot buy a springfield, if you need to go to war get a 303Brit"

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[Fred G.]

The way I heard it was, The Mauser was a hunting rifle, The Enfield was a battle rifle & the Springfield was a target rifle. Of course, these are gross generalizations. All three are excellent rifles and are efficient battle rifles in the hands of a proficient rifleman. Remember, war is the art of nutralizing the opponent and you really only have to "punch" a hole in that soldier to nutralize him. How the hole is punched is all up to the shooter using whatever tool he has. Most casualties are caused by Artillery I've read. Which brings to mind another saying I heard. "Artillery lends dignity to what would otherwise be just a vulgar brawl." That of course was from an officer from the Napoleanic War.

[Mk VII]

No, it's a cartoon from Punch, as so often in these cases.



published 1892

[Jc5]

Thanks MkVII for posting the cartoon!
...

About the hunting/target/battle rifle quote, this is repeated ad nauseum by just about everyone I meet at a gun show or gun shop as soon as they learn that I'm interested in Enfields. They all assume that I've never heard it. I just smile and nod, grateful for their erudition. You cannot trip over a mainstream gun magazine article without finding this quote. Usually, the person regurgitating this quote will vary the wording slightly, and they ALWAYS assume you know exactly what the quote means. So, two questions:

1) What is the earliest appearance of this quote (that can be verified)?
2) What exactly is meant by the "hunting" part, as it relates to the Mauser? Is there something about it that makes it especially suitable to a hunting rifle, or was this just made up to round out the generalization? I always assumed the "target" bit referred to the Springfield's sights. The "battle" stuff on the SMLE is obvious: rapidity of action, 10-rd magazine, etc. add up to a great battle rifle. Of course, the P14 amd M1917 are left out of the quote. Maybe they're the best "runner up" rifle.

The other quote about Enfields that you cannot duck is the one about the Germans on the Marne (sometimes another location is cited) "thinking they were facing machine guns," when in fact it was just Tommy and his SMLE. I don't doubt this is true, but must we read about it in every single reference to the SMLE that gets printed? I'm also curious about the earliest appearance of this quote, but I know this one is early. It is mentioned in a BSA publication in 1919, but it could have appeared much earlier.

[Beerhunter]

I have read it, and seen it, and my version may not be the most accurate, however here is the gist of it

"If you want to hunt buy a mauser, if you want to target shoot buy a springfield, if you need to go to war get a 303Brit"

Err.... assuming an M1903 Springfield isn't that a Mauser?

[jmoore]

Its a Mauser with sights that are useless except when shooting bullseye targets on a sunny day.

[Pelago]

Its a Mauser with sights that are useless except when shooting bullseye targets on a sunny day.

that is interesting, wonder what the germans felt when the US Marines were picking them off at 700 yards

[Beerhunter]

that is interesting, wonder what the germans felt when the US Marines were picking them off at 700 yards

Assuming WWI, I understood that the majority of US troops were armed with M1917s? Also a (modified) Mauser.

[Pelago]

5th And 6th Marines Issued 1903 Springfields

[Patrick Chadwick]

After being sidelined in the deliberations leading up to the Gew.88 commission rifle, the following ten years of development meant that the Mauser bolt action as presented in the Gew.98 can be considered to be the paradigm bolt action, period. Springfield '03 and P14/M1917 actions are based on it.

And the majority of US troop in WW1 were armed with the M1917, as Springfield had totally failed to get its act together as far as production was concerned. Not that Hollywood or US mythology (they're roughly equivalent) goes along with that, but the statistics tell the story (see C.S. Ferris "United States Rifle Model of 1917").

As a shooter I am concerned with accuracy, not rate of fire. And there, BDMP competition results shows that the order for bolt-action rifles is: Springfield 1903-A3, M1917, Enfield No4 (i.e. all those rifle types with peep sights) followed by Swedish Mauser (superb inherent accuracy, but no peep sight) and then the rest. The Enfield No 4 is the only action in the top league that is not Mauser or Mauser-derived.

The trouble with Mausers is the amazing conservatism of the sighting, which means that I have actually fitted a foresight blade intended for a K98k to an M1871. No smithing, no problem. But no progress in sighting over 80 years!

Patrick