Need help identifying a K98

[Hazmat]

My neighbor is planning on selling this to me but we both don't know what its worth and I wanted to know how much it would cost me to get an original stock for it. Also do any of these markings mean anything specific?? Thanks for any help...

Haz

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Patrick Chadwick]

The marking S/147 is the military code for J.P. Sauer & Sohn, a noted gunmaker in Suhl. This looks like a hunting rifle built on the Kar 98 action. BUt please note the receiver is stamped Mod(el) 98 and not Kar(abiner) 98.

The backsight arrangement is completely non-military, and although you did not provide a picture of the entire rifle, the foresight will very probably be of a long ramp style, and even the barrel profile and length may be different from the military rifles (which would make a reconversion impossible).

In short, the stock is original, and I would leave it as it is. The markings on the right side of the receiver are typical proof marks from the Nazi period (see"The Standard Directory of Proof Marks" by Gerhard Wirnsberger).

Even if the rifle was converted from a military rifle, a reconversion would not make financial sense. Once again, it's only my opinion, but it's value is what it is to you as a hunting rifle. Over here: anything from 200 up, depending on shooting condition, as Sauer is a renowned name for hunting rifles.

Patrick

[Hazmat]

Thanks Patrick
Here are a few more pic's of the sights and the rest of the gun. Hope this helps with any further info and to confirm what you said...

Thanks
Haz

[gunner]

Patrick,

are you sure that the outer left eaglas are not BRD markings? I think for the eagle it must be the " Bundesadler". Also on the left side of the reciever. So it looks like a german made hunting rifle from a Gewehr 98.
Here is an overview for the markings from Germany and others.
http://www.dsb.de/media/PDF/Recht/Sp...usszeichen.pdf
Patrick i am sure you dont need it.

Regards

Gunner

[Badger]

A full list of German codes and most WaA's can be referenced in the following Milsurps Knowledge Library entry:

"Das Heereswaffenamt" (Detailed Listing of German WaA Markings and Codes)

Also, check the Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library ...

1939 Code 147 K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle
(Mfg by JP Sauer und Sohn Gewehrfabrik, Suhl)

It's a year later and also shows the transition from Weimar to Nazi markings ...

Regards,
Badger

[Patrick Chadwick]

Gunner, to answer your question: no I am not quite sure. Yes, it could be a postwar makeover. But (sorry to correct you) from a K98, not a Gew98.

For this kind of question and answer game we need a new abbreviation to go with IMHO. Something like AFAICTJBLATPANAHIIMH
(As Far As I Can Tell Just By Looking At The Pictures And Not Actually Having It In My Hands).

However, I am relieved to see that Badger appears to support my opinion. And I still reckon that IMHO (got that one in!) a good hunting rifle is preferable to a faked up K98k.

Patrick

P.S:Gunner, when are you coming to Alsfeld, "center of the known shooting world"?

[gunner]

Patrick,
at first thanks for correcting me in that case and now i have to learn the AFAICT.... thing. Amazing!
I have to look when there is a shooting at Alsfeld, or the easy way can you tell me when you will be there? If you have a date at there please PM me. And if its possible not only a BP date eventually also a DG1 or DG2 shooting competition or for fun. HTHFY ( Hope to hear from you)

Regards

Gunner

[Hazmat]

Thanks for the help guys....
So what I think you guys are saying is that this is not a military issue rifle but it is from the Nazi time period as a hunting rifle. The "mod 98" tell that its not a K98 and as is it's worth about $200 U.S. Is that correct? I was hoping this was a real K98 Military rifle cuz I REALLY REALLY want one.... I added a few pic's with some notes on them cuz I know you guys cant see in the pic's.... all the yellow circles have that symbol I drew with the number 214 under it a few have different numbers as I noted on the pic's. I did look at the information you guys showed me but I'm just not familiar enough as you guys are to understand what it all means.

Thanks again for the help...
Haz

[Badger]

Thanks for the pics ...

WaA214 is a Waffenamt marking used to identify parts manufactured by various firms at different times. You'll find it in the document link referred to above.

You'll also find it referenced all over the net. Here's the results of a google search on "waa214" ...

WaA214 S/147 Sauer und Sohn Suhl 1935 - 38
WaA214 S/178 Baj. Gebr. Heller Marienthal bei Schweina (PL?) 1937
WaA214 147 Sauer und Sohn Suhl 1938
WaA214 237 Die Berlin-Lübecker Maschinenfabriken Lübeck 1939 - 40
WaA214 duv Die Berlin-Lübecker Maschinenfabriken Lübeck 1940 - 44
WaA214 qve Die Berlin-Lübecker Maschinenfabriken Lübeck 1945

Regards,
Badger

[Patrick Chadwick]

Dear Hazmat, don't get us wrong.
The link provided by Badger brings up the following information:
Waffensamt code 214 and manufacturer code S/147
both indicate a K98k originally made by Sauer und Sohn Suhl (Thuringia)

But whatever it was originally, it is not a K98k now. Reconversion to a military configuration would not make sense, as the result would be an expensive falsification. And if the barrel has been altered, a reconversion would be impossible.

And don't forget, it's all AFAICTJBLATPANAHIIMH !!

Patrick