Lock 'N Load - M-14 versus M-16

[Badger]

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[imarangemaster]

Thanks!!! Great clip. It is a Mail Call that I missed somehow. One thing he did not show is how hard it is to control an M14 on full auto (I tried one once, and it was all over the place). It also left out another fact that partially the decision was made to switch based on studies of WWI and WWII showing 95% or more of the rifle engagements were at ranges of less than 300 yards, usually less than 200 yards. Another factor in the decision was the ability to counteract hoards of AK47 toting Ruskies flooding out of BMPs in Western Europe. Soviet doctrine for everyone having full auto in an intermediate caliber was influenced German STG44 toting troops. Part of our decision was based on the Soviet switch.

I open country (like Afghanistan) I do think you need M14s. Urban (like Iraq and cities in Afghanistan) the 5.56mm works well. I do wish they would at least use 16" barrels, though, because there is a huge difference in effective fragmentation range between the two barrel lengths. 14.5" is only reliably fragmenting at 70-80 yards. 16" will fragment to 150 yards.

In my real life before retirement, I saw really, really dead people, with really big ugly holes in them from M193 hits (20 inch barrel). H@ll is populated with probably a million unhappy soles from the last 50 years who would dispute the "Poodle Shooter" moniker given 5.56mm.

[chuckfw]

One thing he did not show is how hard it is to control an M14 on full auto (I tried one once, and it was all over the place).

Amen to that!!! It's even worse if you try firing from the hip. Big time waste of ammunition, but it is a great experience to have fired the M14 on full auto.

[xa-coupe]

Never seen Mail Call before but I do recognise Lee.
I have seen an M14 on full auto in the Walter Kronkite special on Vietnam..... it is a handful.

[onlycrimson]

The 5.56 is too small IMO. I always thought a 6.5mm was a reasonable compromise.

[imarangemaster]

As I said in my earlier post...In my real life before I retired (5 years military and 20 years LEO) I saw a number of really dead people, with really nasty wounds (big exit wounds) from 5.56 M193 from 16-20 inch barrels. In fact, in all torso/head shots, one hit did the job very well. As they used to say "The lethal threat was terminated with extreme prejudice!" The only time the 5.56 gets into trouble is excessive range (200-300 meters depending on barrel length) or the M855 62 grain from the 14.5 inch M4 barrel. Only fragments to about 60-75 yards.

[campperrykid]

The newer ammo ( 2 types ) that have been deployed in A-stan are even more effective than the older 55 & 62 grn FMJ loads . The SOCOM load
( also adopted by the USMC ) is particularly devastasting . Clearly , terminal effect drops off considerably at increased range & decreased projo speed . Still , a medium thru long range solid torso hit on some poor misguided ( but very dangerous ) Taiban kid is going to produce a very sick puppy - even at long range. The primitive Taiban medical system makes for a very poor long term prognosis.

I think that a mix of mostly 5.56 in US squads augmented by at least one 7.62 (either belt fed or DMR or one of each ) is a winner mix.

[imarangemaster]

several years ago I was at the AMTU armory / gunshop at Ft Benning GA. The NCOIC and I discussed this. He really did favor the Black Hills developed 5.56x45 MK 262 Mod O and Mod 1, 77 grain, open tip, boat tail. He aid ballistic-ally it compares to 6.8 SPC. Good stuff! He said SF types in Afghanistan are using it with great effect.

Below is me at the armory with a "reach out and touch someone" weapon back from Afghanistan for re-barreling.

[campperrykid]

Here's a link to some old ( Feb 2010 ) info concerning the SOCOM/USMC round :
Marine Corps to issue point bullets - M4Carbine.net Forums

[campperrykid]

Another old ( started in Aug 2010 ) thread from m4carbine.net. This one is a discussion of the US Army M855a1 round :

M855A1 presentation lists improvements over M855 - M4Carbine.net Forums

The Army round includes a steel penetrator that is exposed at the tip of the bullet.