Question on, R.A. UDAIPUR, Indian made 1842 Springfield .69 musket.

[A34]

Gentlemen,

I took apart my 1842 Springfield that I purchased recently. Under the barrel it says, R.A. UDAIPUR. s/319, 23.5.02. Does anyone know how to decode this? I have figured out R.A. UDAIPUR is the manufacturer, but can't find any real info about them on the net. I'm guessing the build date is May 23, 2002. Would appreciate any info. Being an Indian made weapon, is this one of the better brands? Are they still around?

The person I bought it from said it had been proofed to shot, but I don't know how to verify that, other than having my gunsmith look at it. I bought it to do living history impressions mainly, but wouldn't mind testing the accuracy of a few lead balls at a target.

Additionally, this musket has no markings on the lock plate that say Springfield or anything like that anywhere visible, and the bands, butt plate and trigger guard are in brass, like a Palmetto. Not that any of that makes a difference, just that it's different than the other Indian 1842's I've seen.

Thanks,
Randy

Information

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[A34]

I found out some info that I thought I'd pass along to those interested:

RA stands for Rajasthan Armoury.
R.A. = Manufacturer
Udaipur = City of Manufacturer
s/319 = Serial Number
23.5.02 = Date Barrel Manufactured. (Not the date musket was manufactured)

I've never heard of this company, but the musket fires fine and looks to be decent quality to me.

Special thanks to Charles Misulia of Veteran Arms, LLC for helping me with this. The carry alot of cool stuff, you should check them out if you're into the muskets and such.

[jmoore]

Thanks for the info! Indian produced reproductions of this sort are news to me.

[Patrick Chadwick]

I remember hearing a couple of years back of an Indian musket (Brown Bess replica) blowing the barrel. Please treat this as hearsay and dig around yourself. If it does not bear a recognized proof mark, treat it as suspect.

[A34]

Thanks, from the research I've done, most issues were operator error. But, I agree have it proof tested by the gunsmith of your choice.

[gew8805]

My statements below will not be popular:

All of the Indian made guns exported to the USA, Canada and Europe are classed by the Indian Government as imitation guns. They are not made as functional firearms. No touch hole for flintlocks and the percussion bolsters are not drilled for the flash channel. No touch hole and no flash channel = they can not be proof fired therefore, by Indian law, they are not functional firearms. Some companies, at least in the US and Canada, convert these to functional firearms and some even "proof" them to their own standards, whatever those are.

The above being said, India has been making firearms for as long as anyone and still does today. Real firearms made there and sold there are manufactured to very high standards and they do have a government proof house which functions to British standards. All functional firearms made there are required to meet government proofing standards.

See the index of "INDIAN ARMS RULES 1962" at:

Indian Arms Rules Index

Pay particular attention to numbers 20 and 22.

This is not to say that the guns are unsafe to make functional but no one seems to be able to find out any information on what type of steel is used to make the barrels and whether it is capable of standing long, continuous use. We just don't know, do we?

[Claven2]

That being said, if you buy a green mountain barrel to build a flintlock from TOTW or whomever, it has not been proof fired either Luckily black powder patched ball guns are pretty low pressure. If you are worried about it, RH McCrory in his epic work "The Modern Kentucky Rifle" recommends a 200% charge behind two patched balls to proof the bbl.

[gew8805]

That being said, if you buy a green mountain barrel to build a flintlock from TOTW or whomever, it has not been proof fired either.

True, but we do know exactly what steels are used. Getz, Colerain (both use 12L14), Rayl (who uses harder 4150 or 1137) and all other US custom makers as well as Green Mountain (1137Mod, a medium carbon steel with sulfur added to make it free-machining) use only proven quality steels that will stand use with black powder and we know that the quality of their work is beyond reproach. We simply have no way of knowing what is used in the Indian barrels and can not find out what methods they use in manufacture. Keep in mind that the US makers are subject to severe lawsuits that will tie them up in financial disaster for the rest of their lives if their products are shown to be faulty in material or in their quality of manufacture. The same can be said of the European makers in Italy or Spain or elsewhere. An example? The top US blackpowder barrel maker back in the 1950s through the 1970s, Douglas Barrel Company, got out of BP barrel making when they lost a lawsuit 30 years ago indicating that were producing, in some instances, a defective product. The Indian makers are protected by Indian law since their guns are made as imitation guns and we can not touch them in any way other than not buying their product but as long as their prices stay low, they will continue to have a friendly market.

[Claven2]

True, but we do know they use DOM seamless tubing which is only economically made in modern steel alloys, all of which exceed original wrought-iron barrels. I'm not saying they should be trusted, but if they pass traditional proof loads accepted for iron barrels, they will likely give acceptable service. IF YOU PROOF.

[jmoore]

Free machining resulfurized (Poor corrosion resistance) AISI 1137 steel has a yield strength only about 10,000 psi higher than crappy old AISI 1015 low carbon steel. (~55,000 psi for the 1137).

Far more important would be the freedom of cold shuts, inclusions and other rolled in discontinuities. Proofing is HUGELY important. (If you do it yourself, do it on your own ISOLATED piece of property. )