New Russian Capture K98, could use a little help

[Doug S]

Hello,

I put $50 down on my first K98 today. I want to sell a couple of things before picking it up, so as to stay in good standing with the wife. Anyway, it is an ugly “Russian Capture”, that looks to have been well used. Everything appears mismatched with electro penciled numbers on all parts. No sight hood, or cleaning rod. I’m completely new to the K98, so I haven’t bought a book on the topic yet. I’ve been doing some research on the Internet, and have found some info. I would greatly appreciate it if any of you, who may have some additional info on Russian K98, could shed any additional light on the characteristics of the gun.

First, it has a number of markings all over the gun, and on the stock. The metal isn’t very good. It looks to have been reblued, over some corrosion in places, and so it has a non-shiny, almost grayish look to the metal. Markings are as follows:

On top center of receiver is a 27 with an X below it, and below that a date of 1940. I’ve found some links stating that the 27 is Erfurter Maschinenfabrik (ERMA), Erfurt. I know nothing of the manufacturer. Is this a common type, and is ERMA German?

On the left of the receiver, it has an eagle with a circle, and swastika between it’s legs. I’ve seen pictures of these, but I don’t yet know what they are called, or what exactly the marking means. Again, any help would be appreciated. It also has a 4 digit serial number (I think), next to the eagle 1691.

On the right side of the receiver, it has 280 280 280 in a row.

On the left side of the barrel, just in front of the receiver is another eagle with swastika, and the same 4 digit serial number.

On the right side of the barrel is the 280 280 280. The 280' seem to have something that looks like wings above them.

Also on the barrel, but somewhat covered by the wood, are the numbers 5 and 9. Next to these is a “RU”. Where the barrel appears to screw into the receiver is a 792. Above the 792 there appears to be something that looks like small circle with lines going out to an outer circle. It looks almost like a tiny Mum, like on the Jap rifles. I guess it looks like a small spoked wheel. Does this mean anything?

The stock confused me more than anything. It looks to have a shellac on it, that has been peeling off. It didn’t look like a laminate to me, but the dark, thick shellac may have made it hard to tell. Anyway of easily telling if it is a laminate, or hardwood stock? From what I’ve read, it sounds as if the hardwood stocks are post-war replacements. That said on the

right side of the stock, below the sling hole, is the same (but larger) eagle with the swastika between its legs, and below the eagle is what looks a little wings, with a WA63, followed a another identical marking with a WA63 below that.

The buttplate looks nothing like the ones I’ve seen pictured. It reminds me of the plate off my Mosin Nagant. It had some markings, but I didn’t write them down.

Finally, I did notice one problem. The safety lever on the back of the bolt seems frozen in position. The gun fires, but the safety will not budge. The dealer offered to send it back, but I asked if they’d discount the price a little instead. She knocked $25 off. I don’t really plan to shoot it much, if at all, but do any of you think this indicates a major problem. Price after the $25 discount was $250.

Thanks very much for any help.

Information

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[Badger]

Hello Doug ...

A full list of German codes and most WaA's can be referenced in the following Milsurps Knowledge Library entry:

"Das Heereswaffenamt" (Detailed Listing of German WaA Markings and Codes)

Also, pick any K98k Mauser in the German Knowledge Library and go the the massive photo album for it. Start examining the various pics and marks, which will give you a feel for what they are for by reading the descriptions under each photograph...

Finally, if you are going to get into any kind of milsurp collecting seriously, you'll need to start building some good hard cover reference books. In the K98k genre, probably one of the most thorough that will help you a lot with questions such as what you've asked, is Backbone of the Wehrmacht (The German K98k Rifle, 1934 - 1945) by Richard D Law" (1993) - ISBN: 0-88935-139-2

It's available CLICK HERE from Murray House Militaria and because you are a member here, you get a 5% member's discount.

If the copy on-line is already sold, just send him a PM or Email requesting another one.

Hope this helps ..

Regards,
Badger

[Doug S]

Thanks Badger for the response and info. The info on this site is very helpful. I'll check into the book, and surf the library some more. I did already order the Lapin Mauser Markings book.

[Steve1973]

Badger's link should help you with most of the markings you are inquiring about. ERMA (German factory) is an early manufacturer of K98's. I believe they stopped making K98's near the start of the war and concentrated on submachine and machine guns afterwards. (Though my memory is fuzzy on this) The 59 RU is a batch number for the barrel when it was made. The 792 is the caliber marking (7.92 x 57mm).

Early K98's stock (to late '30's) were hardwood walnut before they went to laminate. There are postwar hardwood stocks but they tend to be beech and not walnut.

The safety might be sticky due to cosmoline in the safety assembly. I would recommend dissassembling the bolt and safety with mineral spirits to give it a good cleaning out. ( Good idea with all RC K98's anyway). That might help it's function. Also, it may just need to be worked in a bit. When the Russians reassembled them as mixmaster parts rifles, sometimes the non matchig parts need a bit of use to settle in with each other. I had an RC K98 with a sticky safety like yours but after a couple months of use, it started to smooth out.

Cheers and enjoy the karabiner!!

[Doug S]

Thanks, Steve for the very helpful info. I've been reading an article on Mauser, and based on the info, I'm thinking I have a late 30's Mauser stock on my ERMA RC. The stock has the Nazi Eagle with 2 older style Winged 63's below it. According to the article, Mauser did this in 37. I'm hoping I'm right on this, because based on the article and the fact that my gun seems to be of early 1940 manufacture, I just ordered a 10in cleaning rod. If it's wrong, I'll only be out $15.

Here is a link to these articles. Just go to the articles section after you hit the link. Very detailed info. http://www.ycgg.org/

[Badger]

Check the Germany - Milsurp Knowledge Library (click here)

Here's some pics from a 1939 Code 42 K98k (Karabiner 98) Rifle (Mfg in 1939 by Mauser Werke AG, Oberndorf a/N) (click here)

It's Serial # 8089.

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Take the wood off and see if yours has the same serial number as the receiver still stamped on the inside of the handguard and stock. Early stocks will for sure. WaA63 is the Waffenamt inspection stamp for Mauser Oberndorf, as you can see from the pics above. Although the stamps on the wood set above are a litte faded, they do say WaA63.

Hope this helps....

Regards,
Badger

[Doug S]

Hi Badger,

Thanks for the link. I've been reading through a number of the library threads, viewing pictures. My stock cartouches are somewhat different. It does appear that I have a Mauser stock, and a ERMA gun, but I also found a couple of threads on other sites by individuals with stock markings like those on the gun I'm purchasing. Here is part of a thread I've posted on the Gunboard forums.

In one case the stock had been cut down to a shorter length. The owner bought the rifle, switched the stock, and is selling the stock. In the other case, the gentlemen was overheard talking about Mauser's when someone commented that they had an old Mauser they would sell. It too had been babba'd. In this case, sporterized for hunting. It still had the markings on the buttstock. The purchaser bought the gun for $100, and switched the stock. In both cases the stock markings are identical to ones I noticed in my quick once over the gun I put on lay away. What is confusing to me, is that in most of the Eagle with swastika WaA63 stamps, the WaA63 is printed in semi-circle around the bottom of the Eagle. On these two examples, as well as on the one I'm purchasing, it only has the Eagle with swastika (without WaA63). It then has two of the older type stamps below the Nazi eagle, that contain the WaA63. I know I'm writing this a bit confusing, but just look at the picture for an example of what I'm describing. In both cases, the people who own the stock, stated the stocks were made of walnut, and that they were manufactured in 1937. I think they are getting this from the Mauser article that I've linked. It states that on 1937 stocks Mauser sometimes uses both the Nazi Eagle, and older style Wiemar, stamps. Also, like the one pictured, I don't remember seeing any "H", or "L" designating issue.

Anyway, can anyone confirm that this Nazi Eagle without the WaA63, followed by the older WaA63 indicates 1937 vintage. If so, my gun has a 1937 Mauser stock, on a 1940 Erma gun. I would also think the 10in cleaning rod I ordered today, would be correct based on these dates. Thanks for any feedback. I've also put a picture of the bubba'd rifle, that the gentlemen purchased with the stock markings.

[Steve1973]

Anyway, can anyone confirm that this Nazi Eagle without the WaA63, followed by the older WaA63 indicates 1937 vintage. If so, my gun has a 1937 Mauser stock, on a 1940 Erma gun. I would also think the 10in cleaning rod I ordered today, would be correct based on these dates. Thanks for any feedback. I've also put a picture of the bubba'd rifle, that the gentlemen purchased with the stock markings.

It is tough if not impossible to date that stock to a specific year with a Waa63. You really only could narrow it down to when that waffenampt was in use and where. Some Waa's could be nailed down to a specific year but not that one. It looks like it is an Oberndorf stock made between '35 and '39 due to the Waa63 and the fact that it is walnut.

[Doug S]

Thanks again, Steve. I really do appreciate the feedback.

[Badger]

Here's are pics from a 1936 (left pic) and a 1937 (right pic) S/42 Oberndorf (WaA63 marks) that I haven't had the chance to prepare Knowledge Library entries for, as yet.

In both cases, the WaA63 takes the form of the earlier Weimar Eagle as opposed to the Nazi stylized version.

Regards,
Badger