No 4 7.62 conversion

[superbee]

Is this a early L39A1??

Information

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[rgg_7]

Definitely not L39 of any vintage. The No4 conversions were set up as single shot target rifles with 303 magazines....cheapest you could buy at the time...shot well. The relief cuts are not present in the receiver for the 7.62 magazine. Looks like a Charnwood mag. Early L39 and Envoys have very distinct markings. See Skennerton p242.

[XL39E1]

L39A1 and 7.62mm Conv. rifles are from the same production of rifles, numbered in sequence! Both are cut for magazines, the only difference is the markings on the side. I will post more info later when I get to my PC.

[breakeyp]

I have one as well and have always considered it to be an early marked version olf the L39 series. I bought it because the markings were different. At the least, I have not lost any sleep over it.

[newbieDAN]

L39A1 and 7.62mm Conv. rifles are from the same production of rifles, numbered in sequence! Both are cut for magazines, the only difference is the markings on the side. I will post more info later when I get to my PC.

L39's where never cut for the 7.62mm magazine from the Enfield factory. They utilized the 303 magazine for a loading platform single loader only. 7.62 Mags where fitted by the unit based armourers. The L39A1 was a service and inter-service target rifle, full stop.

[Peter Laidler]

From that, can we say that the CONV type rifles were simply a commercial variant of the UK Military L39 rifles? It'd make sense as the Enfield factory were trying to get into the commercial market for many years after the demise of the old Ministry of Supply. These CONV's, the Envoys and Enforcers being good examples of commercial output. Alas, commercial output can never sustain ordnance factories

Regarding the sequential serial numbers between the CONV and L39's, is XL saying that this sequenced serially numbering jumps between the species? I mean, could there be a batch of, say 12 CONV rifles, from A-030 to 042 then a batch of L39's from UE 69A-042 to 050 then CONV's from 050 to 057 and so on?

[XL39E1]

Who says L39A1's were never cut for magazines?????? Does anybody have a none cut L39???

[rgg_7]

L39, Envoy,Enforcer and L42's were all fatory cut for the 7.62 Enfield mag. As a couple folks have commented...there are a number of civilian variants like the No4 7.62, No4 MK2, Centar's not cut for the mag as there were set up for single shot with 303 mags. This was a cost savings to the target market. Skennerton has a very good section in his book on these variants. He in fact has a drawing that was provided by a gent on this board that shows the cleanance cuts...easy to do if you have access to a mill...so there's bound to be a few oddities out there.

[Peter Laidler]

I think Newbie meant to say that the CONV's weren't cut for the 7.62mm magazine as we know that the L39's were. Certainly our UK MoD CONV is cut for the magazine

The irony with units holding/using L39's was that when they were RTO'd (returned to Ordnance....), they had to be returned as they were issued. That meant sightless and with the bog standard - but now long lost .303" magazine. This caused a few probs because only Cadet Forces had the bog standard magazines! So the Cadet Force Warrant Officers would swop spare .303" mags for 7.62mm mags (which they didn't really want/need) AND the valuable but now redundant PH 5 type sights - which they DID need for their target No4's and in some cases, 'loaned' L39's. Better still, some Cadet Forces (Radley, Cokethorpe and Marlborough spring to mind as I recall but there will definately be many, many more) had L39's 'loaned' to them from the local TA units so this source of spares was most useful

If anyones interested, I'll continue................. The problem with the 'long loan' arrangement was that it didn't come with a 7.62mm ammunition allocation so the Cadet Forces would keep the crap L81's on charge and use the ammo allocation from that rifle to feed the ammo requirement for the L39's and L4 Brens that they had. To think that when I was part of the TA training team, I never knew any of this chicanery or book-cooking was taking place - right under my very nose!

Things were certainly a lot easier then of course

[newbieDAN]

Who says L39A1's were never cut for magazines?????? Does anybody have a none cut L39???

I'm pretty sure I have one...well not cut for the 7.62 mag

"Para 8 of the build standard also states that the magazine will be the standard .303” magazine that will be used as a loading platform. It goes on to state that the rifle may be fitted with a 10 round 7.62mm magazine at the users request"

L39 owners weekend reading............