My new M1917. Help, what do I have?

[flying pig]

Found this Remington M1917 at a gunshow up here yesterday. Just wondering a bit about it. Most of the parts are R marked but the bolt has a E on the underside of the handle and a D by the flaming bomb mark. Does the finish look original? The stock appears to be R marked?

Either way I'm very happy with it!

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[fernleaf]

Yes, it seems like original bluing to me.

I'm sure you wouldn't have too much trouble finding a Remington bolt for it....

[Patrick Chadwick]

You need "United States Rifle Model of 1917" by C.S. Ferris for full details on markings. The rifle looks very good to me. What is the barrel date? Should be August-September 1918. There is a rough correlation between barrel dates and receiver numbers. This is only approximate, because the M1917 was one of the first really mass production rifles with genuinely interchangeable parts, with a much higher degree of interchangeability than the P14.

Eagle marks over numbers are government inspectors' marks (see Ferris P.105-6). I don't know about the D. The rifle is not obviously refinished, apart from the very shiny foresight blade (which could be a field replacement) but this is hard to tell from photos. Other parts appear to show normal wear.

The fact that the bolt is an Eddystone bolt is irritating for a collector, but of no concern for a shooter. M1917s with barrels in good condition are generally very good shooters, and if the head clearance is OK (please search the forum for a description of the very simple method of checking this) you do not need to let yourself be flustered by well-meaning busybodies telling you that you must spend a fortune on headspace gauges before shooting it. The bolt may well have been replaced by an armorer for a good reason. In fact, the combination of a replacement bolt and foresight blade would suggest a rifle that has been optimized. If the head clearance is good and the rifle shoots dead center at 100 yards with service ammo, that may well be what happened.

You seem to have a very good "low-mileage" rifle. Enjoy it.

[flying pig]

Thanks to both of you for the replies. Patrick, if that is the case then I will be even happier with it. I shoot all of my rifles so if an armorer has been through it and made it work better in service then that a desirable thing to me. I will look up the head clearance thread asap and then after I'll try out some of my ammo I have loaded for my Garand to start. If its a good shooter I'll take it with me to the Ross shoot in Calgary later this summer.

Barrel is dated July 1918.

Checked head clearance and its at .0025" using the spent primer in an unfired case technique.

Time to get some ammo made up and go shooting!

[Patrick Chadwick]

Barrel is dated July 1918.

That's fine. It sounds like the original barrel.

Checked head clearance and its at .0025" using the spent primer in an unfired case technique.

Excellent. That supports my tuning hypothesis.

Time to get some ammo made up and go shooting!

My suggestion for a PDG first approximation:

Powder charge to "accuracy load" for your powder in the Sierra manual, if you plan to shoot at 600 yds or more.
For shooting up to 300 yds, reduce the Sierra "accuracy load" figure by precisely 2 grains. Not 1 grain, as this will put the rifle in a "bad vibrations" area - groups were 3x large for my M1917!

Use 168gn HPBT Sierra Matchking or Lapua Scenar. Seat 0.020" off the lands. I have read of people claiming that they seat down to 0.003" off the lands. Poppycock! When the striker hits the primer, the cartridge is pushed right forwards, by the amount of the head clearance (forget gauge headspace - this if firing real ammo, not gauges!). So when the primer ignites and it all goes bang, the bullet may or may not be hard against the lands. This maybe contact means erratic pressure variation and less than optimum groups.

After first firing, check the head clearance again, with a case that was fired in your rifle. It will probably be very small indeed. From now on only neck-size those cases, and they will last and last and last... and be amazingly accurate. Now you can also try setting the bullets a gnat's whisker closer to the lands, but don't forget that everything has tolerances, including bullet profiles, and you should avoid those maybe contacts.

Expect 2-3 MOA at 100 yards on first firing. Off a sand sack. Well centered horizontally.
If you get below 2MOA, you are approaching the aiming limits with iron sights and your PWF. 1 MOA is testing you and your eyesight. The rifle may be even better, but you need to fit a scope to test it. Mine brings sub-MOA only with a scope off a sand sack. I just can't aim or shoot any better!

Now go out and fulfil these expectations, and post the results!

Good shooting

[flying pig]

Will do Patrick! I actually jumped ahead earlier today and loaded my first 30rds for it (I just received my brand new chargemaster combo, could not wait to try it). I used 168gr HPBT SMKs over 46.5gr of H4895 seated .020 off as normal.. It's my pet load in my Garand, figured I would try it for the first outing then ladder up as per normal on the next trip.

Hopefully we get a calm night with no school the next day and the wife and I will pack up the kids and head out, she has a new .22 from the same show to try as well.