M1903 A4 build

[mrclark303]

Hi all,

Just bought a very good quality 1903A4 build, it consists of :

Remington A3 receiver and bolt s/n 3203596 (September 1942 production)

An original 1943 dated barrel

An original Lyman Alaskan s/n 43963 in excellent condition (post war I think)

An exceptionally well made repro mount

And an exceptionally good quality repro A4 stock (needed refurbishing and oiling, as some idiot had lacquered it....NOTHING WORSE ON A MILITARY RIFLE

Questions to you chaps in the know as I am very new to all things Springfield, give me a L1A1 or an Enfield and I am happy...Springfield.....in the dark :

Would my receiver and bolt have originally been a built up A3 thats been converted, or is it an unissued/unused receiver, like a Gibbs A4?

What year is the scope exactly, I know its post 1944, but what year was it made?

Can you still get hold of an original A4 stock ?

Pics when I can get them done chaps.

Over to you guys ?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Neal Myers]

There were never any unissued A3 receivers available. For their repro A4, Gibbs uses Remington A3 receivers & turned down bolts from ---------- they don't say where. The could have come from complete rifles, or as parts. To make the bolts work in their A4's, they have to turn them up, & refinish them. So, you will have the same problem ---- your bolt won't work unless you have the handle bent up (or replace it with an original A4 bolt).

I don't know the date your scope was made, maybe someone else does. But, it was definitely made > WW2. And, most of this type scope purchased by the US military were marked M81 or M82. They were used during the Korean War & Viet Nam.

NOS Keystone replacement A4 stocks were available until around 2000; I haven't seen one for sale since, except for a small quantity of beat up "take offs" that someone got from a US arsenal. Gibbs had to custom order repro stocks.

Neal

[mrclark303]

Thanks for the info.....

I believe Gibbs bought the stock of Parker Hale's, 3,000 unused A3 receivers and bolts that were among their stock.....apparently!!

This would figure, as Parker Hale was well known for its hunting rifle builds of milsurps (more build than rework) as they would take Enfield receivers and bolts, refinish them to a high commercial blue finish and build up sporting rifles from that starting point.

If they managed to get hold of A3 receivers back in the 60's /70's for peanuts (probably floating round the international arms market at the time), they probably intended to build up sporting rifles from them, but never got round to it......it would make sense...

But, would these surplussed receivers have been serial numbered I wonder?

Here in the UK A3's are quite rare and command a high price in good shooting order, no one would build up an A4 from that starting point here. My rifle is 2004 London proof house Proofed, so was it rebuilt in the States and imported I wonder?
Very interesting indeed.

The build quality is quite exceptional, beautifully (and expensively) done by someone!

Thanks again, cheers John.

[mrclark303]

Pics below chaps!

[JGaynor]

Mr. Clark, are you by chance the owner of several excellent gun related photo albums on pbase (Springfield Arsenal Museum, John Inglis Factory and others)?

In addition to the A3 drill rifles Parker Hale sold to Gibbs for conversion to M1903A4 clones I believe PH offered an M1903A3 of their own which could have been converted into an A4 by an individual. Prices for the individual A4 components did not start to go nuts until the inception of the vintage sniper matches a few years back. Now any original pieces are very hard to find and quite expensive.

Excellent work!

Regards,
Jim

[mrclark303]

Not me mate re the pbase pics....another Mr Clark. Interesting info regarding the Parker Hale A3 drill rifles, I thought they were unused receivers, not complete rifles.

As they were DP's I hope they were safe for rebuild!

[Chuckindenver]

Gibbs = recovered drill rifles...count on it
bases used are made in China, metal quality is questionable, screws are soft, and not the correct thread pitch,
quality and craftsmanship is hit and miss with the replica A4s being built..
based on the pictures you posted, its hard to tell for sure.
a close up of the cut off switch area may help, bolt looks a bit crude..scope is a commercial Lyman common of the 1950s and 1960s.. and not military issue.
iv built several sniper replicas for over seas buyers, not a big issue to get them done, and sent..i have a couple importers..
all it takes is money.

[mrclark303]

Thanks for the info guys.....Tell me, here in the UK, rifles were DP'd when they had faults, or wear that deemed them unsafe to fire.........in general

So, Gibbs buy all these DP'd Springfields.... Were they originally downgraded by your DoD because of faults, or just plane surplus to requirements, so DP'd and issued to cadets etc?

Are there any DP "tells" on the receiver or bolt, that might have been burnished off/repaired during re-use ?

As I am new to these fine rifles Chuck, what potential issues (if any) should I be looking out for in general with the M1903 ?

Cheers, guys.

[JGaynor]

Thanks for the info guys.....Tell me, here in the UK, rifles were DP'd when they had faults, or wear that deemed them unsafe to fire.........in general

So, Gibbs buy all these DP'd Springfields.... Were they originally downgraded by your DoD because of faults, or just plane surplus to requirements, so DP'd and issued to cadets etc?

Are there any DP "tells" on the receiver or bolt, that might have been burnished off/repaired during re-use ?

As I am new to these fine rifles Chuck, what potential issues (if any) should I be looking out for in general with the M1903 ?

Cheers, guys.

If the rifles were converted to drill rifles by the US Govt typically there was a standard list of things that were done:
1. Steel plug insert welded into the chamber. (to prevent a round being chambered)
2. Barrel tacked welded to the receiver. (to prevent an easy barrel change)
3. Firing pin ground off and firing pin hole in the bolt welded closed. (to prevent a firing pin swap)
4. Magazine cutoff tack welded/brazed to receiver bridge. (to prevent a total bolt swap)

Since the Gibbs (and others) reactivations involve installation of a new barrel and bolt the principal challenge is separating the old components from the receiver. There may be residual signs of damage (discoloration) where the welds were applied. However i personally have examine a few recovered drill rifles that showed no signs of damage around the cutoff tab. To inspect the barrel/receiver joint the action must be removed from the stock.

Most of the M1903A3's were only lightly used or unused before being placed into storage after ww2. They were deactivated in large numbers so as to be used for training, manual of arms drills etc. As far as the US defense establishment was concerned the M1903 was technically obsolete well before WW2. The M1903A3 was a temporary stopgap manufactured during WW2 and subsequently rendered obsolete by the M1 Rifle which was in turn rendered obsolete by the M14 Rifle in the mid 1950's. It was about this time that the military started getting rid of the M1903A3's in large numbers. Not that they were worn out or "bad" - Just in the way and obsolete..

Regards,
Jim

2

[Chuckindenver]

P14 and SMLE DP arent the same as U.S. modified for drill use.
the U.S. gov, figured it was cheaper to modify rifles on hand for ROTC use, then pay 12.00 each for drill rifles made by Daisy..
60,000 drill rifles in lots of 100 or so were auctioned off a few years ago, now Gibbs and others have flooded the market with these GEMS,
some better then others in the quality of build and parts.