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[Mark in Rochester]

Burnt ruins of German "Tiger" tank at Cori. Fifth Army. Cori area, Italy. 31 May 1944.

Information

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[Bill Hollinger]

That main gun is a monster!

[CINDERS]

My favourite tank of WWII even though there were only 1200 of them produced due to the amount of effort required to build one it took a while to sort them out how best to deal with them, as one tanker who faced Wittmann head on at a very short range in his Sherman Commander Pat Dias found out.

Pats story was they were engaging the Tigers in a town and Pat spotted Wittmanns Tiger advancing so Pat backed the Sherman into a building to ambush Wittmanns tank from the rear the only logical place for the 75mm gun to have a hope of killing the Tiger.
Pat let Wittmanns tank go by thinking Wittmann had not seen him and when he thought it right came out of hiding to attack the Tiger from the rear, sad thing is Wittmann had noticed him and as Pats Sherman came out and turned onto the Tigers path he met it head on in his words "Not an ideal situation to be in." Pats Gunner got 2 AP rounds away which simply bounced off the Tigers armour as Pat said "I fired twice he fired once."

The explosion blew Pat out of his commanders hatch and killed two of his crew and luckily for Pat the Dr he was taken to was an eye specialist who passed a large magnet in front of his eyes to get all the steel splinters out and said to Pat if they had stayed in there for 24 hours you would be blind.
In looking at Pat on the interview he had suffered from the 88 round that entered his Sherman and as we know they were called Ronson lighters first time every time.

Pat admired Wittman as a Tiger Commander as he was efficient and ruthless, but was taken out by a Firefly from the rear and killed the force of the explosion blew the Tigers turret off killing the crew Wittmann included, the pics show the Tiger turret some distance from the hull.

Post script the hull shape on the tank in the top pic looks like it could be a "Priest."

Hi Mark - what I meant by the lighter quip is that when a Sherman was hit they ignited there fore the crews named them Ronsons due to the fact they lit up first time every time probably due to the radial engines diet of the fuel I guess, not an enviable thing but the USA were producing one complete Sherman every 30 minutes given the Tiger tanks full production of 1200 units

[browningautorifle]

Post script the hull shape on the tank in the top pic looks like it could be a "Priest

Good eye, yes it could.

[Mark in Rochester]

Hi Mark - what I meant by the lighter quip is that when a Sherman was hit they ignited there fore the crews named them Ronsons due to the fact they lit up first time every time probably due to the radial engines diet of the fuel I guess, not an enviable thing but the USA were producing one complete Sherman every 30 minutes given the Tiger tanks full production of 1200 units



It is an interesting story it caused me to dig a little deeper

I have read where the "first time every time" quote was a post war ad campaign.

I did find references to ronson and zippo as flame thrower tanks but not as a reference to the m4 burning up

Also found this

"German tanks also used petrol engines yet avoid the 'catches fire with one hit' blame. It's not the fuel that burns, it's the ammunition. Once wet ammunition racks were installed, M4's had one of the lowest fire chances out of any tank in WWII. The Russians used the Sherman, and liked it. If they didn't why would they accept over 4,000 of them? Also, the Panther and Tiger were overweight badly engineered pieces of junk. 75mm-armed M4's culd penetrate the Tiger from the side at over 600m, and 76mm/17lber versions could penetrate the front from 1000m"

The truth probably is somewhere in between

[Bob Seijas]

The truth probably is somewhere in between

Ain't DAT da trut! It always is. History is so full of untrue legends like the ping of the M1 alerting the enemy to an empty rifle... what crapola!

[Mark in Rochester]

The Ronson system was a flamethrower for vehicle mounting developed in World War II and used by the Canadian Army and the United States Marine Corps.
The Ronson was developed by the British Petroleum Warfare Department in 1940.[1] Having insufficient range it was passed over for British use but taken up by the Canadians for further work. The Ronson was developed in time sufficiently to be used for production of the "Wasp MkIIC" flamethrower variant of the Universal Carrier.
From there it came to the attention of the US and adopted as the Satan. The US used an M4 Sherman tank adapted with a Navy Mark 1 flamethrower, which was a development of the Ronson by the US Navy.[2] These tanks were used in the Battle of Iwo Jima and during Operation Overlord. The Navy Mark I was also used on the Landing Vehicle Tracked LVT.



[img]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ronson_flame_tank_Iwo_Jima.jpg[\img]

[WarPig1976]

"The 88" deadly up to and including 2 miles. The Sherman's 75mm effective range was what? 500yds against 3.5" of armor. The Tiger had close to 5" frontal. Mr. Dias interview is gripping and to see what that encounter did to him physically yet he speaks of it with a chuckle is an inspiration.

[Bob Womack]

The local VFW post in my hometown has an M7B2 out front. Fascinating vehicle.

Bob

[CINDERS]

In a long distance shoot out between these two rivals the Sherman at say 1000m - 1500m the M-4 will lose every time and very badly at that, in an interview I saw of a British tanker he stated the Tiger was like a nightmare, It looks like one, its getting close god it is a Tiger call in the RAF and get the Typhoons that is how they dealt with them.
Von Rosen commander of the Tiger Battalion 503 stated the Firefly with its 17PDR main gun did not give them much trouble at all I guess you would have to look at the kill ratio against each other on a 1-1 basis and you will probably find the Mk VI Panzer would lead the game.
I just feel for those poor tankers in the M-4's facing a Tiger or a Flak - 88 in the tank killing roll.

A quote I also read somewhere or on a doco you may have to send 5 Shermans to knock out a Tiger or Panther you may lose 3-4 Shermans but you will get them in the end having to face something like that is a bit like a WWII Japanese tank facing the M-4 Sherman simply no contest......