New Member Trying To Authenticate an IR-IP stock.

[Smoog]

Hello everyone. My Dad is retiring and offered me his M1 Carbine he's had since the late 80's. We've gone out and shot this gun many times over the years. What a fun gun to shoot. Anyway, I always told him if he gets rid of it that I get first dibs.

After deciding to look into the carbine, I was amazed on how much info is out there and how many variables there are with these rifles. So I stripped it down to identify stamps and markings and came up with this thanks to this forum....

M1 Carbine Parts

Receiver. Underwood s/n# 2403423 "W T A" stamp on rear
Barrel Winchester (oval with WP) #"8" stamp on side by gas piston.
"4" stamp on base near receiver. import stamp "Arl Ord, Arlington,Wa" underside
Stock. "IR-IP" and flaming Ord Bomb stamps. "I" cut high wood.
Recoil plate. Irwin-Peterson type II "IP-W" stamp.
Barrel Band. Type III "MMQ" stamp
Bayonet lug. "EMQ" stamp
Trigger housing. Inland type III vertical "inland" stamp
Mag release. Inland type IV "M" stamp outside, "HI" stamp in wag well
Safety. "N" stamp
Slide. Inland type IV Underlined "PI" stamp inside "K" stamp "7160091" outside
Bolt. Type III (round) Inland. AI stamp
Trigger. "SN" stamp
Hammer. Inland type III "W I" stamp
Sear. Inland type II (with hole) "R.I." Stamp
Front sight. No markings
Rear sight. Inland type II (milled) "HI" stamp

Looks like a tossed together mix-mash.

The interesting thing is the IR-IP and flaming bomb ord stamps on the stock. I can not find any other markings or stamps on the stock. It has some cracks and pins and looks like someone at some point lacquered it up pretty good. I was just looking to see if you guys might be able to authenticate it or not.

I've included a link to a photobucket album that has some pics.

http://i1298.photobucket.com/albums/...pszqj9lkww.jpg

Thanks. You guys really know your stuff.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bill Hollinger]

First, welcome to milsurps.com. You will find some of the most knowledgeable and benevolent folks here who are all quick and more than willing to help new members. Please stick around and enjoy.

Nice, just shoot it and have fun with it. The stock does look right. It has had some extensive repairs over the years. Although it has been sanded and varnished it is still a functioning stock. Get the other grip area crack fixed before it completely goes south on you. There are a number of members who are very handy with wood repair here who can give you some advise as to effective repair methods. Again, welcome

[USGI]

Nice carbine! I have an "Arlington-Ord" Saginaw and I believe your barrel stamping should read Arlington, VA rather than Arlington, Wa. Mine has a Post War cast front sight (unmarked) and is probably the same as on yours. Even with the repairs, your stock has quite a bit of value to it. Mine has refinished metal and was shipped with a new replacement stock which is very nice, but does not have the "character" to it that yours has. A lot of the "high wood" IR-IP stocks were cut down to "low wood," but yours is still intact. Welcome to the forum! - Bob

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

As Bill mentioned, welcome.

The W T A marked receiver is a bit harder to find. So nice to have that. Imported and been through at least one, maybe more, rebuilds. The IR stock is nice, but the repairs and band marks it hurt it some and a poor fit on the recoil plate.

I wouldn't put money into it, but would shoot and enjoy it.

If you use the search feature in the task bar you can find past threads that might relate.

Look forward to a range report.

[tenOC]

I'm thinking somewhat contrary to some previous posters on the stock. While agreeing it should be repaired by a competent person, I personally probably wouldn't shoot it again. We've been seeing a few pop up lately, but still they're not common to see.

They're definitely correct that value is diminished by the work and wear patterns. Still worth saving though.

[U44]

Smoog, welcome to the forum. Your receiver marked W T A was made by intertype for Underwood and sold to Winchester when Underwood's contract ended. It's considered a rare receiver marking. Winchester completed the carbine, which explains the Winchester barrel.

[Smoog]

Thanks guys for all the input already. What originally seemed like an easy task to look up my carbine ended up opening a huge can of worms I never knew existed. Its pretty fascinating everything that has happened with these guns and even more fascinating and helpful that people like yourselves overtime have put together such a vault of information about them. It has been a fun process.

I do have a few questions. First one is simple probably. Why the color difference in the trigger housing and some of the trigger components? Its almost bronze-like vs the barrel and receiver?



Second. Were these barrels heavily sanded or machined on the outside during or after the import process? Both barrel stamps are very faint and are almost missing half the stamp. Like this.



Or were they not happy stampers that day?

Third, Should I just buy another stock if I want to continue shooting the gun? I have no attachment to the Irwin Pedersen stock which obviously not original to the gun. Rebuild, Rebuild... I could buy an original, more common stock in good shape and find someone who may be building up an IP who needs a stock and make a couple hundred, maybe? Plus it needs more repairs and stripped down for a true restoration. I love doing that stuff but someone who wants it might want to do it themselves. Plus I don't want to mess it up.

Thoughts?

[browningautorifle]

Almost without doubt the metal has been re-finished. The receiver shows pits and they are blue to the bottom. The barrel seems to have been polished as there's no machine marks present and the trigger is purple indicating too weak or too cold when bluing. The high nickel content in some steel will do that if the bath is too weak...yes, it's been re-blued. I'll leave the stock decision to you, some of the others seem to think this is a very collectable carbine, that usually means an expensive stock...maybe someone here has one...?

[Smoog]

Somehow by adding a couple photos to photobucket, I've screwed up my original link to the gallery. Here it is again. You have to click on the image to take you to the gallery.

[Smoog]

Almost without doubt the metal has been re-finished. The receiver shows pits and they are blue to the bottom. The barrel seems to have been polished as there's no machine marks present and the trigger is purple indicating too weak or too cold when bluing. The high nickel content in some steel will do that if the bath is too weak...yes, it's been re-blued.

Who would do that? The importer, the country who had it, or back here after import? Great info on the coloration.