When was the last L42 withdrawn from MoD service?

[LondonEnfield]

As the title says, when was the last L42A1 rifle withdrawn from unit service in the MoD?

Years ago I remember seeing an advert in Gun Mart (I think it was) for the "last serving Lee Enfield rifle" and the advert was allegedly for a .303" No.4 which had been aboard a Royal Navy ship. I'd have thought the last Enfield Rifles on general issue were L42s, though?

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[Peter Laidler]

The last Lee Enfields....... There are still thousands of No8's in service still. Plus the occasional L59 DP No4 where Cadet Forces wish to retain them for reasons best known to themselves. That rifle you mention that was supposedly on a ship turned out to be a total load of twaddle too. They maintained that it had come from the Endurance where it was the line throwing rifle. But the Stores Officer from the Endurance was able to state that the line throwing rifle that he had on the ship and was responsible for was a special L1A1 that he distinctly remembered.

The very last service, full bore Lee Enfield in service that was still accountable and on the WOCS books as such was, believe it or not, a No1 Mk3 that is now at the Small Arms School at Warminster. But some still question this fact.......

We also had the very last two L42's that were in service too. They came to us from Ordnance in Germany in approx 2002 or so (I have the exact date somewhere) together with the confirming paperwork etc etc but it was well after the Ordnance stockpiles had been disposed of. The second L42 and CES was gifted to the NZ Army museum at Waiouru where someone 'ringed' it by putting in a fake and taking the real one. Sad but true

[CINDERS]

Peter just a question with regards to these particular type of rifles like say the M40's, M82, L42's, L96 and so on through the gambit of the older rifles why won't the MoD for that reason Australia as well release them to the private market I mean to say its not as if the L42 is the today state of the art sniper system there are plenty of privately built rifles on the market with 1/2 MOA capacity out there. As the forum has members I am sure that would dearly like to purchase a piece of history in fact it would be good to see what value they put on those 2 rifles they might have been surprised selling them but I guess some one some where made a ruling..........

[gsimmons]

I'm afraid recouping some of the taxpayers money spent on these items has nothing to do with it.

[Peter Laidler]

Don't ask me Cinders....... They just don't want them out there! The official explanation given for the L42's was that due to their age and that they'd come to the end of their second life and with the (then) recently withdrawal of the old Crown Immunity, they had to be sold offshore.

Someone said that recently, it was all to do with a UN directive regarding arms sales by governments

[mike16]

I dont know how severe the anti gun mentality is in the UK but here stateside there was a total chit storm over police departments selling off thier old service guns to the public. also over the sale of unclaimed guns and guns confiscated from criminals. The storm was at its peak when an x service fire arm, pistol, was later used in some crime. HILLARY'S HELLIONS accused the police of not caring about crime and the public. Accused the police of supplying guns to criminals. Actually profiting from crime and a few other rediculous accusations. The guns were sold lawfully and in complete compliance with the existing laws. Laws the democrats them selves enacted. Go figure. Locally our own police department has a cache of guns that were coming up for auction to local FFL dealers. When Obama came on board just about every police department stoped the sale of thier aquired guns because they were demonized by the press and worried about the image should any one of these fire arms fall into the hands of a criminal and be used in a crime. Some departments actually destroyed thier own guns to placate the Democrats and the press. During the natioal socialist era in Germany a word was invented to desribe the act of cutting off your own testicals to assure your opponent you do not pose a threat to them, whats that word? i dont know but you get the idea.

any way others, more pragmatic, decried the waste of tax payers money and for the most part it was stopped. but eight years later many caches of guns held by police are still in limbo. In the UK I'll bet they were dumped in the sea.

Back during the first Clinton Regime about 600k M1 rifles and carbines were comming back to this country from Korea. Supposed to go to the CMP by law. Clinton slipped a law into the books not allowing these weapons to come in. Bush allowed the law to stay on the books.

supposedly....according to rumor, there are still many m1 rifles still in the navy inventory, all rebarreled in 308. Supposedly.

[Mk VII]

Dumping anything at sea isn't allowed now. They will be destroyed by mutilation, in accordance with their obligations under the various international treaties on the Arms Trade.

[Flying10uk]

A couple or so years ago one of the U.K. dealers was selling L59 D.P. No4 rifles which had also been U.K. deactivated, almost like a double deactivation. These were being sold in stripped down form so to speak so that you didn't get a complete rifle. You basically got the receiver/barrel assembly together with the bolt and trigger guard and that was pretty much it. I decided to purchase one because I had used them in the cadets and the hardest part to find was a magazine at an affordable price. I enjoyed building it up into a complete item again although I have not painted the white bands around the stock with "D.P." or put the cut-outs in the woodwork.

[Frederick303]

I was under the impression that the L42A1 was removed from active service in 1992 and replaced by the L96A1. Were the arms referred to above post 1992 just arms that had not been disposed of or were they in active service?

Working off of memory here but I seem to recall around 1993~94 Navy arms imported something like 637 L39A1 and L421A1 rifles, in both complete and incomplete form, so they were getting rid of them in 1993~1994. In 1999 was when the sales of military surplus bolt actions was stopped in the UK and they went to destruction of the rifles. I recall reading a UN report posting of the arms they destroyed in 1999 and 2000. The arms destroyed in 1999 and 2000 included .22 cal Enfield Rifles. That would mean any left in the system by 1998 will never get out.

In the US there are many police agencies that still sell off there surplus arms, typically to distributors in partial payment for new department arms. Phoenix distributors, Birmingham pistol parlor and a firm in Texas that I cannot recall the name of at the moment are the big ones I recall. Pistols, self-loading rifles, revolvers and some sniper rifles san scopes. I know a chap (lawyer from a police family) who kind of collects such stuff if he can identify the agency, has some neat arms he did not pay all that much for.

Not only police arms, but any National Guard DE&MA arms that are state owned and not title 2 have been sold commercially. An example would be the 870 shotguns from Kansas NG and the Stevens 69RH shotguns from Arizona which showed up a few years ago.

For Federal arms (which includes most NG guns and all federal agencies), none get out unless:

1) They are .30 or .22 rimfire long arms (neither can have been full auto) those can be sold through the CMP to individuals.
2) They are supplied to a police agency, which cannot transfer them to any other entity. Eventually returned to Feds for destruction.
3) Rare arms can be transferred to museums under some program.

All other arms are eventually sent to Anniston, where they are destroyed by captain crunch. Every single part other than small pins or screws must be de-milled. In the last decade a lot of very early AR15/XM16E1 rifles (models 602, 603, 604) have been destroyed that way.

[Gil Boyd]

Peter just a question with regards to these particular type of rifles like say the M40's, M82, L42's, L96 and so on through the gambit of the older rifles why won't the MoD for that reason Australia as well release them to the private market I mean to say its not as if the L42 is the today state of the art sniper system there are plenty of privately built rifles on the market with 1/2 MOA capacity out there. As the forum has members I am sure that would dearly like to purchase a piece of history in fact it would be good to see what value they put on those 2 rifles they might have been surprised selling them but I guess some one some where made a ruling..........

Ron,
I'm afraid I'm old school. The L42 is, in my book still up there with the best of them, even though it is tired like the rest of us as we get older. It doesn't have to prove itself anymore. It has served us well and continues to do so right across the world with many countries sniper teams.

However, apply the Marksmanship Priniciples, and everything you have learnt on a course I feel matching like for like would open a few eyes even today, if put up against the L96.

Just because it is a newer "in service" system, doesn't make it "superior" I'm afraid IMHO.
Take away the Gucci stock and a few minor improvements, you are still left with a basic bolt action rifle, which is fast being superceded.

It had a dismal start to life in service, and thank God it wasn't my decision to continue with it, as I would have dropped it like a hot potato.
Yes there will be those who say I am talking out of my rear end as I bang my drum about the M85 again marginally losing out to it, but as I only deal with facts, and we all have a rear end, I am entitled to my opinion, I am left with no other view I'm afraid, that one alone IMHO destroyed PH as we knew it, who put so much into the weapon.

So in short.............give me my L42 or Enforcer or indeed my M85 anyday

Incoming!!!