1942 Savage No.4 Mk1 T - NZ marked

[Kiwi]

Greetings

I would like to canvas opinions on this rifle.

Observations on the rifle:

• Rifle is a 1942 dated Savage No4 Mk1
• No T Stamp on receiver sidewall
• No Enfield examiners marks on left or right side of bolt raceway, however there is a Ǝ and partial markings on the rifle further to the right of the raceway, as it started to drop down of right side of the buttsocket.
• The rifle has a correct S51 marked buttstock and is marked with the rifle serial number (4921) on the buttsocket recess
• Cheek piece has been re-positioned further to the rear of the butt. Original screw holes plugged and sanded flush with buttstock.
• Two xxxxxx’d out scope serial numbers and another serial number applied.
• Bracket numbers to another rifle 14C3293. No visible makers mark on the bracket.
• H.B.M. Co. Scope (No.32 Mk1?) numbered 9537.
• Two groove Savage made and marked barrel. Number 11 marked on top of barrel.
• Rifle serial number (4921) marked on left side of barrel (same font as the rifle serial on the buttsocket recess)
• Barrel index marking on the underside of barrel and receiver.
• Underside of buttstock and forewood marked with rifle serial number (same punches used)
• Front and rear handguards marked 111 in pencil on barrel channel.
• Receiver, Bolt and magazine marked with rifle serial number 15C4921 and NZ ‘Census’ number 49. The font used on the bolt and magazine match.
• The front pad look to have been taken off and re-applied (shorter and non-rounded screws used).
• Front pad has two stake marks per hole. The screws are not rounded and do not finish flush with the inside received wall.
• The rear pad also looks to have been removed judging from the historic file marked on the receiver.

Does anyone have any comments to make of this rifle? Is it a 'Less Scope' that has been scoped up, or is a T rifle that was converted prior to the standardised 'T' and examiners markings? I cannot find the Ǝ marking on other less scope rifle receivers that I have seen on the net, so perhaps this one is an early conversion.

Apologies for the orientation of some of the pictures. I'll try and rectify that as soon as I can.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Woodsy]

It has parts of a genuine no4 T (butt stock, etc) but other things are worrying. The number stamping is shonky and not similar to any military numbering I have seen. The mount may well be an original but has recently been fitted to the that rifle, as is evident from the recent file/sanding marks, restruck screw staking, heat/cold blue marks, etc. I would say it is assembled from an original No4 T rifle (without the original mount) and has recently been set up with another mount and renumbered.

[CINDERS]

Another clue is the scope serial does not match the serial on the butt wrist, I am not surfe that is the original cheek piece as it looks a bit far back and the stain on top of the wrist looks like a carbon copy of where the original sat (dark area in front of the fitted cheek rest)
Also is that a savage S on the underside of the wrist or the stamp denoting a small butt.
The person whom staked the screws certainly gave the punch a serious quilting.....

[Kiwi]

Another clue is the scope serial does not match the serial on the butt wrist, I am not surfe that is the original cheek piece as it looks a bit far back and the stain on top of the wrist looks like a carbon copy of where the original sat (dark area in front of the fitted cheek rest)
Also is that a savage S on the underside of the wrist or the stamp denoting a small butt.
The person whom staked the screws certainly gave the punch a serious quilting.....

Cheek rest moved back like towards rear to new location as I stated in the first post. Original screw holes plugged up. Mismatched bracket and scope so I know it's not original to the rifle but then no one has tried to match them to this rifle so I'm OK with that. S inside the square on the underside of the butt is the Savage mark not the S mark to denote small. The additional rifle serial number on the buttstock has somewhat covered over the usual inspection mark located there. Yes, they really hammered the punch didn't they.

[Peter Laidler]

I would say that it is as straight as a corkscrew! Somteothers will come in soon, maybe a tad less diplomatically than me

[Roger Payne]

I think the rifle is genuine but it has been got at. The pads are off an early conversion so they could even be the original pads from this rifle (not saying they are, just that they might be). They have been poorly (re) fitted & want taking off again & fitting carefully. The cheekpiece is original but being made out of ash is probably a replacement, as most of these seem to be fitted to BSA Shirley 1944 rifles as 'factory new'. The fact that it has been moved back up the butt stock a little is neither here nor there......is it? The two XX'ed out scope serial numbers look as though they could be genuine 'in service' markings to me, whereas the last serial is clearly a recent addition, as is the 'confirmatory' serial number on the underside of the butt near the butt socket. The scope & bracket are both original but recently mated up to this rifle.

If push comes to shove I think it is 'got at but real', & was scoped up from the start, with most likely the top XX'ed out scope serial being that of it's originally fitted optic. As an aside I have a 14C Mk1* that bears the same poorly stamped examiner's mark on the right upper rear butt socket. Mine was scoped from the outset with a Mk1 scope. It seems that most Savage Mk1 rifles were scoped up from the start, but many Mk1*'s (though not all) were not. It's also a very high serial number for a Mk1 rifle, but it is what it is.

[bigduke6]

Kiwi, Did you buy the rifle? or asking before you buy it?

[Kiwi]

Kiwi, Did you buy the rifle? or asking before you buy it?

I own it. First bunch of picture from listing then others from when I received it.

[Kiwi]

The mount may well be an original but has recently been fitted to the that rifle, as is evident from the recent file/sanding marks... I would say it is assembled from an original No4 T rifle (without the original mount) and has recently been set up with another mount and renumbered.

The markings on the mount, although rough, look more like rough finishing rather than trying to removed a stamped serial number. There are rough finish marks all along the surface and around the rear screw hole, etc. It does not appear that a previous serial number has been filed down as I would expect the profile to be altered quite a but to remove a stamped serial number.

I would be more dubious of filing down etc if the rifles 15C serial number was applied to the bracket, but it is in fact a 14C prefix serial number so no attempt to match the bracket to the rifle has been made. Perhaps the previous owner located a 'close enough' Savage serial numbered bracket and left it at that?

[Kiwi]

As an aside I have a 14C Mk1* that bears the same poorly stamped examiner's mark on the right upper rear butt socket.

Does anyone else have a similar examiners mark on their T rifles?