P17 Winchester

[Ovidio]

Today I went to Austria on a business trip, and while getting back home in the evening I thought about going to my gun shop for powder and primers.
While there and chatting, they received a telephone call from a guy asking for milsurps, which they lately never have.
The shop owner answered that he had a grade B Carl Gustafs, a grade A Steyr and a grade A P17.
The guy was not interested, but I started smiling, so the shop owner asked me if I was smiling for the P17.
Yessir!
So he took it out.
It is a Winchester and in good condition, but I was so surprised that I did not check it thoroughly. The barrel is marked 0-18, which I guess is a 10-18.
There are a few flaming bombs here and there. On the barrel and? I can’t remember...
Didn’t look at the serial number
The barrel is great. Trigger good.
He looked at his armourer and asked what price they should make for good old Ovidio....
600 € was the answer.
Eddistone normally run here for 800 plus. Even up to 1200.
Winchester I don’t even know.
I told him to put it aside for me and that I would come back and take it in February (kids dentist next week).
What should I really thoroughly check to see if it is a valuable Winchester rifle?
I’m already happy just for the general condition, but if it also were a collectible one...

Information

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[rcathey]

It'll say Winchester right above the serial number.

All the little bits are labeled with the first letter of the maker (W, E, or R). In these parts, it's uncommon to find one all matching. In fact, I turn my nose up at the matching ones because someone likely changed out parts to get it that way.
Since this rifle is still "over there" (or close) maybe it was never rebuilt and things will match.

600 Euros converts to about $690 USD. That's a pretty decent price for a Winchester even here.
Nice score!

[oldfoneguy]

This isn't your first rodeo cowboy so you know what basics to check. For Model 1917 specifics check under the barrel at the end of the stock it should be marked with a W like all the other parts of the rifle. If no marking or a different letter it's been replaced. The rear sight should be numbered to match the serial number on the receiver. As well as the bolt and barrel. Cartouches should be clear and visible throughout. It should be cock on closing, if not someone swapped in a speed lock which is an aftermarket cock on opening lock assembly. If your lucky it will have an oiler and cleaning kit in the butt, most likely not though.
With a 10/18 manufacture date odds are it never actually saw combat as it took an average of about 2 months for them to reach the front lines and the war was over by then. That doesn't mean it wasn't issued just that it wasn't soaked in mud in the trenches. Winchester's are the lowest number production of the 3 manufacturers and considered the most accurate.
That price is a steal, grab it if it's in decent condition. Best of luck!

[RC20]

You do know that the world has ended as you called it a P17? (love it, we know what you speak of)

The rear sight is not serial numbed on the US made guns. It will have a couple of R, W or E on the various pieces.

As noted you know the drill, all the devil is in the details. Winchester is only more desirable as fewer of them, nothing special about that past the lower made numbers.

And until you take it down, you don't know what you have. Not likely pure. A lot of the marks you can see on the bolt, striker, coking piee, sight (3) etc as for what mfg.

You would have to guess that its a combat rifle (not likely but some US troops were actually issued those) Free French were given a lot.
Not likely to be shot out (not sure what shooting is allowed there?) Bolt may have an SN on it.

Probably impossible to buy gun parts from US to make it pure if not.

Nice would be a Throat Erosion reading, you need a gauge for that. Low cost one in US but not sure if its worth it?

[Daan Kemp]

The British world knows it is the P17 to differentiate from the P14.

[fjruple]

Ovidio-- It sounds like the Winchester may be a late production rifle from the barrel date. The first 10,000 or so Winchesters had a compatibility problem and General Pershing, the US AEF commander requested that no Winchesters be sent to Europe due to compatibility issues. It seems that Winchester jumped the gun and started production of the M1917 without using approved blueprints from the US Army Ordnance Department. Compatibility was achieved by January 1918 but the damage was done. The general idea was that each US soldier in the National Army (non- Regular & National Guard Division Troops) would have two M1917 rifles available to him. One that he would personally use and an operational readiness float in event his rifle should be damaged, lost or destroyed. The Winchester M1917 usually bring a 30% added premium here in the US. I recently saw a Rebuilt WWII Winchester with a rough bore sale for $900.00 US.
Enjoy your new rifle.

[Ovidio]

So, shall I call it Model 1917 or P17?
You English speaking guys are fairly complicated

[oldfoneguy]

It's official name when adopted,

US Rifle, Caliber .30, Model of 1917

That should help add to your confusion.
Although based on the British Pattern 14 Rifle there is no P in the real name of the US version.

[jonh172]

Call it P17!!
Why? Because everyone knows what you mean and no babies will perish if you do!

The people in the factories who made the things called them P17s cuz it made sense and everyone knew what they were talking about!

Is New York city officially called "The Big Apple"?!! No! But, everyone knows what you're talking about when you say it!!

Need more!?
M1 Gun, 03, Ought 3, American Enfield, Hitlers Buzzsaw, P17!!!.... you get the idea...

Sounds like you were at the right place at the right time.
Please post many pictures when you get it!

[Ovidio]

I’ll do. I have to bide my time for a while, but it’s been put aside for me.
Concerning the name, I’ll call her Lazy Suzy