Modified S&W 1917, .455/.45LC

[Ovidio]

Hi everybody,


here I am again with questions to the more knowledgeable.
I‘ve been seing this gun on sale on the Internet for a couple years now, and it has dropped in price from 500 to 250 €.
Now I‘m starting to get interested.
I know the 1917 model and I read that there have been a few of them modified as target guns, with quite a few different sights and solutions.
This one, at least on picture, looks like a very well done job.
It is on sale by a renown arms shop in Milan, which is not quite around the corner, but still within reach during some work trips, so I guess the conditions should be good as they claim them to be.
Any suggestions?
Is such a reworked gun worth anything?
Actually, if these old horses are accurate, with such sights they should be really enjoyable, which would settle the question for me.
Attachment 99228Attachment 99229Attachment 99230Attachment 99231Attachment 99232Attachment 99233Attachment 99234

Information

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[browningautorifle]

I'd say it'a well past the collector stage now but as a shooter it well may be superb. It would join that .44 of yours as a favorite on the firing point...

[bacarnal]

By the looks of it, and the regimental flags in one of the shots, it was probably at one time a British purchased pistol, and more than likely for WWI. It states .455 which could be Webley, but also could be chambered for .455 Eley/.455 Colt. Since the Eley/Colt casing is the length of a .45 ACP round (.89" or 22.6mm), that would be a way to check it (putting the round in and rotating the cylinder). The .455 Webley casing, by way of comparison is .75" or 19.05mm. You can shoot .455 Webley out of it just as easily and might be able to find it more readily in Italy/Europe. If it is chambered in .455 Eley/Colt though, in a pinch you can fire .45 ACP through it if the bore is .452". The only drawback is that you have to eject the casings with a dowel or pencil, kind of like the Colt SA Army. I've done it with my British marked 1914 production Colt New Service chambered in .455 Eley. Considering the cylinders are built to withstand the pressures of .45 Colt (also wrongly known as .45 Long Colt), .455 Webley or .45 ACP are more mild. For that price, it should be a good addition and shoot well. Cheers, Bruce.

[Daan Kemp]

I believe these guns are quite accurate, that is why the rib and target sights, and a pleasure to shoot.. The 455 is a milder version of the 45 and given the correct case and bullet diameter, should shoot very well.

[Lee Enfield]

Do not shoot jacketed bullets out of a pre 1960 S&W barrel.

[rcathey]

Do not shoot jacketed bullets out of a pre 1960 S&W barrel.

Hmm..interesting. What's the reasoning for that?
As far as I know, the ammo for these 1917s was jacketed from the very beginning. The 45 ACP certainly was.

[browningautorifle]

Do not shoot jacketed bullets out of a pre 1960 S&W barrel.

Too late...

[bacarnal]

Do not shoot jacketed bullets out of a pre 1960 S&W barrel.

As the rcathey asks, why would that be? The S&W M1917 was used extensively, along with the Colt M1917, with cupro-nickel jacketed bullets in WWI, then with gilding metal (.950 copper) clad in WWII. Having collected and shot a variety of firearms over the years, this is the first time I have heard of this caution, though there are a lot of things I'm hearing and reading of in my later years that are contradicting what I thought was truth. Could you please enlighten as to the reason(s) why you should not fire clad bullets through a pre 1960 S&W? Respectfully, Bruce.

[RCS]

Ovidio, it is my opinion you have a S&W Model 1915 Type 2 revolver by the barrel markings and the bore is for the 455 Webley WW1 cartridge. The barrel was cut back as the original was 6 1/2 inches. The 455 Webley cylinder can be rechambered to the 45 Colt.

Years ago I bought a S&W Model 1915 Type 2 in 455 Webley caliber, later I had it re-chambered to 45 Colt. Accuracy was very poor, even tried 38 grs of black powder, Factory cartridges also were not accurate, 45 Auto Rim will fit the cylinder but the rim is too thick to close the cylinder. Also a reduced load of Unique in the big 45 Colt case was also a waste of time. I did not like loading the factory load of 8 grains of Unique in my WW1 revolver. After WW1 I heard the cylinder received heat treatment ?

I decided to cut down the 45 Colt cartridge case to the same length as the 45 ACP case and with loads of Unique it worked out. I understand the "Cowboy shooters" also have a short Colt cartridge case that they use too. Anyway accuracy improved Attachment 99266Attachment 99267Attachment 99268Attachment 99269

[Lee Enfield]

Hmm..interesting. What's the reasoning for that?
As far as I know, the ammo for these 1917s was jacketed from the very beginning. The 45 ACP certainly was.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/143635-455-vs-45-acp.html

It is a Second Model Hand Ejector .455, not an M.1917.

Part of the confusion is that while an M.1917 is a type of Second Model Hand Ejector, a Second Model is not an M.1917...

While Colt started heat treating their cylinders circa 1909, S&W did not until roughly 1918/1919.

Barrel steels were designed around cast (or even swaged) lead bullets, right into the .357 Magnum era.