Another "What do I have here?" thread!

[lawrence_n]

Good day to all! I was at an estate auction and picked up a few goodies (see here and the militaria forum). I thought I was getting a Chassepot bayonet, but the script on it looks Germanic rather than French. There's no French writing on the spine nor any visible makers mark. I've taken pics of the stamps except for the small "333" stamped on the pommel. My camera couldn't focus in on it. So my fellow blade lovers, any thoughts?

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[Patrick Chadwick]

Well if it isn't a Chassepot bayonet, it's a remarkably good imitation!

Seriously, I just checked your photos against my example, and stylistically it seems to match, even counting the grooves in the grips and the positions of the rivets.

However, there are 2 differences:

The factory script on the spine of the blade is not apparent on your example,
My example also has what appear to be inspection marks on the curve of the quillon.

Of course, it may be that the factory script (something like "Mre d'Armes de Chatr.." plus month and year) and the inspection marks have been worn away as a result of less than loving care over the last century and a half.

But - as far as i can tell from your photos - it's a Chassepot bayonet. Non-matching.

[Patrick Chadwick]

but the script on it looks Germanic rather than French

Sorry, don't get that. Mine looks near enough the same - for instance the flat-top "3" with a very strong curl below.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Go here to see the large number of subtle variations according to manufacturer, country, period etc.

The 1866 Chassepot

[lawrence_n]

In doing some further research, it may be a German Werder bayonet. Note the top of the qullion and the fact that the muzzle hole has the screw on top, not the knot.
Anyone?

[lawrence_n]

I've done some more research and it seems that the Germans adapted captured Chassepot rifles for their own use (look up German Werder bayonet). In going over the bayonet even more closely with a good magnifying glass, I found some more stamps. There are two stamps on the knob at the end of scabbard, a cross of some kind and what looks like a "9" on the other side. As well, I found what looks like a serial number in the bayonet lug channel under all the accumulated crud. So mes amis, here's some more pics to ponder.

[Patrick Chadwick]

the muzzle hole has the screw on top, not the knot.

??? Not sure what you mean by that.

But I repeat. Your bayonet is - as far as I can tell from your photos - a Chassepot bayonet. The quillon/muzzle ring/screw arrangement is identical to my Chassepot bayonet.

It is not a Werder bayonet - the grooves on the grips have a different spacing - 6 untouched rings between the rivets on the Chassepot, 5 on the Werder (at least on the photos that I can find).

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

Furthermore, the Chassepot has a knob on the end of the quillon, the Werder does not.

[lawrence_n]

??? Not sure what you mean by that.

But I repeat. Your bayonet is - as far as I can tell from your photos - a Chassepot bayonet. The quillon/muzzle ring/screw arrangement is identical to my Chassepot bayonet.

It is not a Werder bayonet - the grooves on the grips have a different spacing - 6 untouched rings between the rivets on the Chassepot, 5 on the Werder (at least on the photos that I can find).

---------- Post added at 11:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

Furthermore, the Chassepot has a knob on the end of the quillon, the Werder does not.

You may well be correct. I am puzzled by the lack of script on the spine of bayonet. If it was removed, it was very professionally done. Under strong magnification, there's no sign of script or abrasion. Perhaps someone can shed more light on the different stamps. Does your Chassepot bayonet have the stamps on the knob at the end of scabbard?

[Flying10uk]

I am puzzled by the lack of script on the spine of bayonet.

Could you post a clear photo of the spine of the bayonet, please?

[lawrence_n]

Could you post a clear photo of the spine of the bayonet, please?

Why? As I stated, there's nothing there, just bare steel.