Quality H.M.C. Bavarian Police - almost original?

[hurrikane18]

Hi there,

I’ve been doing some research on the Quality Hardware M1 Carbine that I recently purchased and I need some help with the stock. First, let’s talk about the metal parts, I believe these to be original except for the magazine catch:

Receiver: Quality H.M.C. serial # 1638xxx
Barrel: Rock-Ola (undated) with P proof mark
Gas Cylinder: Rock-Ola
Type II Flat Bolt: EM-Q (Quality Hardware)
Slide Well: DA-Q (Quality Hardware)
Trigger Housing: Q-NL (Quality Hardware)
Sear: GE-Q (Quality Hardware)
Hammer: LT-Q (Quality Hardware)
Magazine Catch: To be determined (M on right side)
Front Sight: JQ (Quality Hardware)
Type I Rear Sight: GE-Q (Quality Hardware)
Type I Barrel Band: Unmarked

I have not done a full disassembly of this rifle yet, so these are just the markings visible from doing a field strip. So far, the modified magazine catch appears to be the only non-original metal part. Now, let’s talk about the German Police markings before we move onto my questions about the stock:

Top Rear Receiver: 282
Recoil Plate: L.P.W. (Landespolizei Württemberg)
L/H Side of Receiver: 0818
Bottom Trigger Housing: WB-LP-0818

Alright, now the stock. It’s a Type II walnut (or cherry) stock with the oval cut and high wood. The hand guard matches the stock and is Type I with the wide channel and two rivets. The entire rifle is well used and showing it’s usage - the stock is no exception. Here’s the issue: inside the sling well is LW-B (Lumb Woodworking Co. for IBM). Now my initial reaction is that the stock is obviously non-original, but I’m not quite convinced. As far as I can tell it’s the right type, with oval cut, high wood, and two rivets, and like I said, the wear on the stock is consistent with the rest of the rifle. Lastly, on the bottom of the grip is a stag horn marking which is consistent with Württemberg. So..

1) Did Lumb Woodworking Co. supply any stocks for Quality Hardware? I know the manufacturers were sharing supplies with each other during the war. The easiest explanation would be that this stock was with the rifle from the start, although I think it’s probably more complicated than that.

2) Did this rifle get a replacement stock sometime while it was with the German Police? It bears the stag horn marking, so it was obviously with the Landespolizei Württemberg. Maybe a couple stocks got mixed up? It’s a bit of a coincidence that it found another oval cut, high wood, two rivet stock, but not totally unreasonable.

What makes this mystery more difficult is I can’t find any other markings on the stock or hand guard! I think any other markings have long been worn off through the war and it’s time with the Police. Any help with this stock (or the replacement magazine catch) would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,
Tyler

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[painter777]

Did Lumb Woodworking Co. supply any stocks for Quality Hardware?

1st Welcome to Milsurps !
I used to know a gal from Prince Albert...

I'm not aware of any LWB stocks being sent to QHMC, but doesn't mean it didn't happen. No way to be sure without having a CC stamp on it to see who accepted it.
Very possible the original stock was damaged or as you said just got swapped around.
Others will chime in.

In the mean time here are some links I found using our Search feature with some QHMC's near your range....

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=67757

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=67330

And here in case you haven't seen it a link to LPW use:

U.S. Carbines in Germany and Austria

[jond41403]

I am no expert, they will be along shortly but it looks like I see an impression on the stock to where it looks to me like it used to wear a bayonet lug type band. I can't really see great detail on my screen from your pictures, but it does look like it had a different band at one time in its life.the bayonet lug type band was a great deal wider than the band that is on it now. Since the gun is in your possession, does it look like a wider band used to sit there at the front? Is there an even impression on the nose of the stock on both sides?

[hurrikane18]

1st Welcome to Milsurps !
I used to know a gal from Prince Albert...

I'm not aware of any LWB stocks being sent to QHMC, but doesn't mean it didn't happen. No way to be sure without having a CC stamp on it to see who accepted it.
Very possible the original stock was damaged or as you said just got swapped around.
Others will chime in.

In the mean time here are some links I found using our Search feature with some QHMC's near your range....

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=67757

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=67330

And here in case you haven't seen it a link to LPW use:

U.S. Carbines in Germany and Austria

Thanks for the reply! Sorry you had to meet someone from Prince Albert though

Yes that’s what I’m thinking as well, it just seems like a bit of a coincidence that the correct age stock would show up as the replacement (not that I’m complaining, if it did). Thanks for the links, I’ve definitely read through that website in detail, but I’ll check out the threads you posted too.

Cheers!

[hurrikane18]

I am no expert, they will be along shortly but it looks like I see an impression on the stock to where it looks to me like it used to wear a bayonet lug type band. I can't really see great detail on my screen from your pictures, but it does look like it had a different band at one time in its life.the bayonet lug type band was a great deal wider than the band that is on it now. Since the gun is in your possession, does it look like a wider band used to sit there at the front? Is there an even impression on the nose of the stock on both sides?

Thanks for the reply. Here are some closer pictures of the barrel band.




I’m not sure why it would’ve had the wider barrel band though? It wouldn’t have had it originally and it doesn’t now. There is very little evidence of this rifle being rebuilt or parts swapped out other than the magazine release for some reason, and potentially the stock (which is why I’m here). Are you suggesting the LW-B stock may have worn a newer barrel band during the war for some reason? Because I’m fairly confident that even if this stock isn’t original from the factory, it’s at least been with this rifle since it’s time with the German Police.

[painter777]

I had a feeling you had seen the Bavarian link, after reading your ID of markings.
We can all Thank Sleepless Jim M for his work there.

I'm not sure when QHMC switched or phased over from the I cut to Oval Hi-woods... Surely some overlap.

BTW She was a Belgian transplant to the great white north.

[painter777]

I don't see any signs on the stock nose or on the barrel of ever having a bayonet band on it.
The Mag catch could have been as simple as replacing a worn one.
Can you see any letters on the front teeth of your Mag catch? Just curious....
Your stock is Walnut, nice one really.

I wonder if this carbine might have been one of those imported to Canada thru Century ((?) in the 70's (?). Thus no Import markings.

Looks like someone stole 1/2 your mag off of it....

Do you shoot it?

[hurrikane18]

Hahaha yeah, here in Canada our freedom is limited to 5 rounds

I don’t know who sleepless Jim is, but I thank him for his research! There is some really great information there.

How do you know she was a Belgian?

As for the barrel band, thanks for your input. I just couldn’t see it ever wearing the wider band.

Thanks for identifying the stock as walnut, that’s what I thought as well but I can’t really tell the difference between walnut and cherry and I read somewhere that LW-B used a lot of cherry.

No, I don’t see any letters on the magazine release other than the M, but again I haven’t fully disassembled it yet so there may be something underneath, I’ll let you know. I wonder if the original mag release didn’t work with the 5-round mag? Or like you said, it could have been replaced during the war or even with the Germans, hard to say really.

As for import markings, I have seen none! maybe the only good thing about Canada with respect to firearms laws lol.

This rifle is still pretty new to me so I haven’t shot it yet, but I intend to. The ammo just arrived last week. I won’t wear it out by any means, but I like to collect rifles from the world wars and I just can’t help myself to put a box or two down the pipe to get a feel for what it was like. I’ve done this with all my rifles except for my garand, but her time will come as well.

Thanks for the quick replies. I’m new to this forum but I can see myself lingering here more often now in addition to my Canadian sites.

Cheers!
Tyler

[USGI]

Nice Carbine! I took a look at your thread earlier today and made a list of stuff to research later (hopefully) in War Baby. Take a close look at your sling swivel - the shape doesn't look quite right. Someone may have replaced it with a "new" one? Is the barrel standard length, or is that not a problem where you live in Canada? Welcome to the Forum, too! - Bob

[hurrikane18]

Nice Carbine! I took a look at your thread earlier today and made a list of stuff to research later (hopefully) in War Baby. Take a close look at your sling swivel - the shape doesn't look quite right. Someone may have replaced it with a "new" one? Is the barrel standard length, or is that not a problem where you live in Canada? Welcome to the Forum, too! - Bob

I believe it’s standard length. The rifle is categorized as “restricted” in Canada because of the barrel length. Extra licensing and more rules. As for the sling swivel, I don’t have another carbine to compare it to so I’m only comparing it to the pictures online as well. I thought it might have looked a bit strange at first too, but it’s hard to tell. The rifle doesn’t have a sling, so I don’t see any reason for someone to have changed it?