First sinking of a military ship since the Belgrano in the falklands war

[Gil Boyd]

Who do you believe? Interesting question when you consider Russia on paper to be one of the biggest and most well trained nations in the world.
Only last week a Russian Military drone was shot down and they found a Canon DSLR camera fitted into it, with the fabric of the drone looking like it was compiled by a model shop!
This week we are to believe the MOSKVA missile Cruiser was sunk by a Ukranian land to ship missile.
I would favour incompetence on board that led to the sinking, it seems to be indemic in all its Forces, so badly trained and not fit for purpose or am I wrong?. Their Military generally it appears to me, do not appear to have the appetite for this unecessary war against their fellow Slavs.
This is Reuters take on the sinking, the last sinking of a military cruiser since the Falklands War:

Russia has confirmed the Moskva missile cruiser, the flagship of its Black Sea Fleet, has sunk while being towed to port following what it said was a fire and explosions involving ammunition stowed onboard.

Ukraine says the Moskva's fate was sealed by a missile strike launched by its forces from the coast which ripped open the hulking Soviet-era ship's hull. Russia's defence ministry has not confirmed that version of events. Reuters is unable to verify either side's assertions.

Here's what we do know, and what the sinking means (and does not mean) for Russia's battle-readiness:

WHAT CAPABILITIES DOES THE SINKING DEPRIVE RUSSIA OF?

Russia has powerful air defence systems deployed in Crimea, which it seized from Ukraine in 2014, but the Moskva was able to provide long-range and mobile air defence protection for the entire Black Sea Fleet and was a floating command and control centre. Its loss potentially leaves the fleet more exposed, particularly on longer range missions west of Crimea.

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE CREW?

The ship had a crew of around 500 sailors who Russia said were successfully evacuated to other ships before being returned to their home port of Sevastopol in Crimea on Friday. Ukraine has suggested there are likely to have been fatalities, but Russia has not said anything on the subject yet.

Make your own minds up, bearing in mind proporganda works two ways when sides clash!!

Information

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[rcathey]

Maybe it’s a combination of what both sides are saying.

Ukraine launched a missile that landed a lucky strike straight to the ammunition magazine of the cruiser.

[ssgross]

Maybe we can isolate the only underlying confirmable fact...the ship is on the bottom of the sea. Isn't this really the only thing that matters?

[rcathey]

Isn't this really the only thing that matters?

Yup!!

[Gil Boyd]

Certainly is, but be nice to know how successful the UK and U.S. hardware was doing in operational circumstances for the future.....................................what happens when you corner an injured animal? As sure as dark after daylight he will use is only option!

[tiriaq]

The ship had 16 cruise missile launching tubes. Did any of those cruise missiles have nuclear warheads?
Was the ship nuclear or conventionally powered?

Has the Glomar Explorer passed through the Dardanelles yet?

[Gil Boyd]

Not sure whether its in International waters.
The last Royal Navy Diver Lt Cmdr "Buster"Lionel Kenneth Phillip Crabb, OBE, GM, known as was a Royal Navy frogman who vanished during a reconnaissance mission for MI6 underneath a Soviet cruiser berthed at Portsmouth Dockyard in 1956.
His headless body was found soon after!!
So glad my diving days are over as I bet there are things on there they don't want the west to know about.................particulary the double flushing toilet or the nuclear bread maker

[Flying10uk]

The ship was in a war zone and it does make one question what state of alert the ship was in. Was anyone onboard watching the radar screens? Were the watertight doors shut? Was everyone wearing anti-flash kit?

Those of us old enough to remember the "Cold War" will remember that the standard Soviet response to bad news was, initially, to deny everything but with President Putin's Russia it is like the old Soviet response "on steroids" when things don't go to plan.

[RCS]

US news states that two Neptune missiles were fired at the Russian ship from land base launchers

[ssgross]

I meant my last comment tongue in cheek from the perspective of those fighting on the ground. All these other questions are of course good and valuable, but from this perspective (and the question of distinguishing fact from propaganda), they are what we always called S.E.P. (somebody else's problem).