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GI's fire at the suspected enemy position. Wingensur-Muder, France. January 1945
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Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.
Last edited by Mark in Rochester; 12-27-2022 at 08:17 PM.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose
There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.
What informs you to make that conclusion? just curious.
Also, any idea if the square patch of bark removed from the tree serves any purpose other than firewood?
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose
There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.
Guy on tank looks pretty casual.
Nobody taking cover behind the tank.
White patch on tree, maybe a painted nighttime highlighter?
Didn't notice until looking at the photo several times,
There is a guy prone at the base of the tree and
maybe another just in front of the tank.(Feet sticking out ? )
Last edited by RAM1ALASKA; 12-29-2022 at 10:21 AM.
In early January 1945, Wingen was the location of a minor, but strategically important battle between German and American forces. On New Year's Eve, Germany launched a surprise offensive—Operation Nordwind—in northern Alsace. At the start of the offensive, Wingen was controlled by Allied forces and a modest number of soldiers from the Seventh United States Army were positioned near the town. At dawn on 4 January, two battalions of the German 6th SS Mountain Division Nord managed to quickly capture Wingen. Over 200 American soldiers positioned in the town were caught off guard, captured, and held captive in the Catholic church and a nearby house without food or water until they were liberated on 7 January. The two sides fought house-to-house for the ensuing three days until the Germans retreated in the early hours of 7 January. The fighting damaged nearly every building in Wingen
Squad leader up on the tank talking to the commander?
BAR gunner apparently didn't feel the need to get involved.
Judging by the wrecked jeep in the distance probably taken during the recapture of the town.
The units of the 6th SS Mountain Division were arguably the best on the Western Front at the time
Maybe not:
Prior to the invasion of the Soviet Union, Operation Barbarossa, a new unit was attached, SS Gebirgsjäger (Mountain) Artillery Regiment 6, and the brigade was redesignated a division, 6th SS Division Nord.
The new division, partly as a result of inadequate training and poor leadership, soon became notorious for twice breaking in the face of enemy forces. When it took part in Operation Arctic Fox,[6] more than half of its infantry units broke and retreated in disarray. In September 1941 the division was attached to the Finnish III Corps under General Hjalmar Siilasvuo, and took up defensive positions at Kiestinki (Kestenga) in the Loukhsky District. The division broke for a second time, after a panic took hold among personnel, who came to believe that they were facing a major attack by Soviet armored forces.
Interesting comment that they were using Finnish Soumi SMGs as well as MP40s in Wingen-sur-Moder
Photo is a still taken from a film clip reproduced at 13:12 here:
That doesn't prove it's not staged of course.
Last edited by Surpmil; 12-29-2022 at 12:51 PM.
Reason: More
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Quite possibly. According to the article at the first link heavy losses from Panzerfausts made the armour quite reluctant to advance without what they considered adequate infantry support.
At 6:59 here possibly the same tank (and jeep) when a bit farther up the road. Same brick wall and bluff on the opposite side of the road.
The rest (or all?) of that raw Signal Corps footage seems to have been shot after the battle ended. The men being fed at 2:48 are without equipment and probably the released prisoners.
Last edited by Surpmil; 12-29-2022 at 03:01 PM.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Also, any idea if the square patch of bark removed from the tree serves any purpose other than firewood?
Possibly to mark the gateway just out of shot and or to help not hitting the tree/gatepost when turning into the gateway under blackout conditions. (I am assuming that it is painted white, rather than bark removed.)
I say this because a large tree just outside my family home, in a similar position in relation to the gatepost, got marked presumably for the same reason, in the early war period. I don't think that we ever established who actually marked the tree but it was assumed that it was done to mark the side of the road, the tree and the gateway. The house was a warden's post during WW2 and so there could be vehicles coming in and out during the night. From memory of a wartime photo the marking was a white triangle. Fortunately this property survived the war undamaged. Some of my family, including my father, evacuated to a "safer location" in 1940 and it was this other property that was bombed which I have written about elsewhere on this forum.
A few years after the war the marking on the tree was getting rather faint and my father thought that it would be a good idea to repaint the marking on the tree as it was still a useful gate marker. We still had "pee-souper-fogs" because every Tom, Dick and Harry was burning high sulphur content low-grade coal. No sooner had my father carefully repainted the marking on the tree, some "helpful" person came along, pointing out, that in their opinion the marking meant that the tree had been selected to be cut down. The tree survived all through the war without being cut down and no-one ever came to cut it down after my father's repaint. The tree was still there when I visited the area a few years ago.
Last edited by Flying10uk; 12-29-2022 at 08:07 PM.
I knew that I had a photo somewhere, just a case of putting my hands on it. As one can see from the photo the tree marking was, in fact, 2 parallel lines, not the triangle as I had thought from memory. It is possible that there is some feint marking between the lines, W or V? Also the gate posts are marked. According to the caption on the back of the photo, the image dates to the later war period after the "blast wall" of sand bags had been removed across the front of the house which helped to give some protection.
When one examines the headlamp masks/shields that were only fitted to one side, with the other headlamp being blacked out completely (in the UK), it is easy to understand why drivers needed all the help that they could get to drive under blackout conditions. Civilian vehicles still in use, such as by the civil defence and those in "reserved occupations etc" who were entitled to a fuel ration, often painted the edges of the wings (fenders) white in an attempt to make their vehicles more visible to others.
There was a "civilian form of camouflage for vehicles" of matt black or grey with white along the edges of the wings etc. I was once told that the reason these colours were specified was because, initially, no guidance was given on how to "camouflage civilian vehicles" and some privately owned and used vehicles got camouflaged along military lines.
Later edit: Additional photo added. Same location from a different angle, some 10+ years later. The car is a 1951/2 Standard Vanguard Phase 1. (Post WW2 the British armed forces used many Standard Vanguards for Staff Cars etc.)
Last edited by Flying10uk; 01-23-2023 at 04:15 PM.
. January 1945
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PM
Originally Posted by Bill Hollinger
