US miilitary personnel firing from helicopters onto Viet Cong targets.
Location: Vietnam
Date taken: October 1963
Photographer: Larry Burrows
Anyone who runs is a V.C.! Anyone who stands still... is a well-disciplined V.C.!
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose
There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.
I hated that scene... typical Hollywood tactic to use one psycho to denigrate all our troops. The antiwar flower generation was the beginning of the rot of our great country. Look where it has taken us
I hated that scene... typical Hollywood tactic to use one psycho to denigrate all our troops. The antiwar flower generation was the beginning of the rot of our great country. Look where it has taken us
Apparently (I believe it was this film) when they filmed that scene they forgot to let people on the ground know - some (all?) of the people on the ground are reacting to crazy people in a helicopter shooting at them.
It was also one of those typical Hollywierd dramas, an interpersonal drama with all these big, green noisy things in the background. The genre is typified by Titanic, a love story with this big, black boat thingy in the background.
Bob
"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' "
Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring
I hated that scene... typical Hollywood tactic to use one psycho to denigrate all our troops. The antiwar flower generation was the beginning of the rot of our great country. Look where it has taken us
War crimes are a part of war and the depicted scene is mild compared to actual events - many of the vets I worked with have much more gruesome personal experiences. t Happened and it does reflect on the rest of the organization - to not speak to it or censor it out of the story just buries the truth
Military records demonstrate that the "Tiger Force" atrocities are only the tip of a vast submerged history of atrocities in Vietnam. In fact, while most atrocities were likely never chronicled or reported, the archival record is still rife with incidents analogous to those profiled in the Blade articles, including the following atrocities chronicled in formerly classified Army documents:
A November 1966 incident in which an officer in the Army's Fourth Infantry Division, severed an ear from a Vietnamese corpse and affixed it to the radio antenna of a jeep as an ornament. The officer was given a non-judicial punishment and a letter of reprimand.
An August 1967 atrocity in which a 13-year-old Vietnamese child was raped by American MI interrogator of the Army's 196th Infantry Brigade. The soldier was convicted only of indecent acts with a child and assault. He served seven months and sixteen days for his crime.
A September 1967 incident in which an American sergeant killed two Vietnamese children -- executing one at point blank range with a bullet to the head. Tried by general court martial in 1970, the sergeant pleaded guilty to, and was found guilty of, unpremeditated murder. He was, however, sentenced to no punishment.
An atrocity that took place on February 4, 1968, just over a month before the My Lai massacre, in the same province by a man from the same division (Americal). The soldier admitted to his commanding officer and other men of his unit that he gunned down three civilians as they worked in a field. A CID investigation substantiated his confession and charges of premeditated murder were preferred against him. The soldier requested a discharge, which was granted by the commanding general of the Americal Division, in lieu of court martial proceedings.
A series of atrocities similar to, and occurring the same year as, the "Tiger Force" war crimes in which one unit allegedly engaged in an orgy of murder, rape and mutilation, over the course of several months.
Last edited by Mark in Rochester; 10-16-2024 at 12:44 PM.
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose
There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.
One vet (RVN)I know well saw a enemy soldier skinned alive - senseless on both sides - Another friend was in Bosnia saw women being raped by un forces but it was not on his side of the line and could not do any thing about it. We will never know who did more on this side of life. All we can do is admit it is part of the story - Bob you are correct that some will use isolated incidents to condemn all who serve but that reflects on them who live in the peace provided by our valiant veterans
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose
There are no great men, only great challenges that ordinary men are forced by circumstances to meet.
I have never been in war, so I can't really talk about this matter.
But I think that all those facts are just the product of human reactions to complex, highly distressing situations repeated for days, weeks and months.
Some people will react in a way, others will let the beast surface and become merciless or criminal.
But again, it is necessary to know the whole story, which is almost impossible to do.
I often think about one of the most famous pictures of the Nam war: Eddie Adams's photo of Brigadier General Nguyen Ngoc Loan shooting a Viet Cong prisoner.
I saw it once labeled "the pop into non-being". That caused me to really think a lot about it, and made that picture unforgettable and a bit haunting to me.
The General was considered a criminal at first. Then, information came through and the prisoner was accused of having killed the entire family of a colleague and friend of his.
Does this give a man the right to kill a beast? In peacetime it clearly does not (although I sometimes waver in this conviction of mine), but what about wartime. Such a war at that, practically a mix of civil war, clash of ideologies, colonial liberation war... With also a lot in terms of racial prejudice and cultural barriers...
It happened in all wars, is still happening now and will always happen.
As I do for many other things, I pray to God that, should I ever find myself in such a situation, I could remain a good person. Steadfast in my duties and obligations, but still human. Retain a vivid conscience, a human conscience, a Christian conscience.
But I will never bet a cent on this, until tested by reality. Which, if everything goes the way I hope, will never occur.
Not much of a contribution, but I felt like writing it.
PM
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