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Type: Posts; User: Tom Doniphon; Excluded Forums: Milsurp Knowledge Libraries (READ ONLY)

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    The early ones did not have the clean-out hole. ...

    The early ones did not have the clean-out hole. They started adding the clean-out hole on these around the fall of 1917.
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    That shotgun is in the serial number range of the...

    That shotgun is in the serial number range of the WWII riot guns, not trench guns. I believe Kleins converted trench guns to long barreled sporting guns. Not sure if they converted any riot guns. ...
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    Sounds like a barrel installed by someone other...

    Sounds like a barrel installed by someone other than Winchester.

    Can you see the date on the barrel? if you can, does it correspond to the serial number of the gun or is it a later dated barrel?
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    The serifed P in an oval is Winchester's mail...

    The serifed P in an oval is Winchester's mail order barrel mark.

    Is the normal Winchester intertwined W P proof mark also on the barrel?
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    Your Model 12 riot gun actually dates to 1949. I...

    Your Model 12 riot gun actually dates to 1949. I seriously doubt it is a military contract shotgun. If it was I would think it would have U.S. martial markings. And as I recall, most if not all...
  6. Regarding mismatched Model 37s, in 1960 Ithaca...

    Regarding mismatched Model 37s, in 1960 Ithaca issued a notice about the danger of mismatched guns. It stated that around 1948 the company received several military surplus mismatched guns and...
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    Looks like you have a mismatched trench gun. ...

    Looks like you have a mismatched trench gun. Both the receiver and the barrel were shipped as trench guns. 57808 was shipped in late June 1942, and 61274 was shipped in early July 1942.
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    If you can provide the serial numbers of the...

    If you can provide the serial numbers of the receiver and barrel I may be able to tell you exactly when they shipped from the factory and in what configuration.
  9. The Brush Guns had a shorter stock and 26 inch...

    The Brush Guns had a shorter stock and 26 inch barrel with a cylinder bore. Riot guns have 20 inch barrels with a cylinder bore. The barrel on the subject gun does look shorter than 20 inches. I...
  10. Yes it looks reblued. If the barrel was cut down...

    Yes it looks reblued. If the barrel was cut down it probably was originally a "Brush Gun". Model 1897 Brush Guns had cylinder bore barrels like riot guns.
  11. View Post

    Your family members Model 1897 shotgun with C serial number prefix was made in 1903. It should have a buttstock with a rounded pistol grip bottom, and the slide handle should be the type that has...
  12. The barrel serial number is on the barrel...

    The barrel serial number is on the barrel takedown lug. Once you take the barrel off you will see it.
  13. I've seen several with the single M date code. ...

    I've seen several with the single M date code. Maybe these were marked in error that way or who knows what happened. But I wouldn't be too concerned about it, particularly if the barrel serial...
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    Those serial numbers are all at the lower end of...

    Those serial numbers are all at the lower end of the serial number range for WWII Model 520 shotguns. That lower range is where most of the riot guns are found.
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    It is a riot barrel. The placement of the...

    It is a riot barrel. The placement of the Ordnance bomb and P proof mark on the left side of the barrel as well as the fact that the company info and shell size are on the left side of the barrel...
  16. It's actually an August - Sept. 1944 gun. At...

    It's actually an August - Sept. 1944 gun. At least that is when the serial number was applied to the receiver.
  17. Bruce, I believe it's earlier than that. ...

    Bruce, I believe it's earlier than that. According to the Winchester Polishing Room records, the serial number was applied to that receiver in Jan 1943.
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    Yes it should work in a US made 1911 pistol. The...

    Yes it should work in a US made 1911 pistol. The Norwegian KV/1914 was a licensed copy of the 1911 pistol.
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    The bottom mag may a late production one for the...

    The bottom mag may a late production one for the Norwegian M/1914 pistol. The lanyard loop on the Norwegian mags is not as rounded as they are on the U.S. made mags. And the late production...
  20. It is a real WWI 1897 trench gun. It even has...

    It is a real WWI 1897 trench gun. It even has the hand stamped US and Ordnance bomb on the receiver which make it more rare since most of the WWI 1897s did not have the hand stamped marks. Too bad...
  21. Value? There should be three transverse grooves on the...

    There should be three transverse grooves on the underside of the barrel for the bayonet adaptor screws, not two. I think that barrel may be cut down.
  22. About 10 years ago there was a guy who imported a...

    About 10 years ago there was a guy who imported a bunch of those Vietnam trench guns through Canada into the U.S. I recall there being Stevens 520s as well as some Winchester Model 12s. Many of the...
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    According to Brunner in his book on these...

    According to Brunner in his book on these pistols, there were over 2,900 of them shipped to the OSS. They fall into the serial number range of 541103 - 569725. There were also several hundred...
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    Like so many other production tables for the...

    Like so many other production tables for the 1897/97 shotgun, this one ialso has many errors with some dates being off by several years.
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    It's an E, not a D. The early WW2 97s have that...

    It's an E, not a D. The early WW2 97s have that weird kind of serif E whereas the later WW2 guns have a plain non-serif E.
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