Stand, Instrument C No. 47 Mk. I R.E.L

[AX201201]

The tripod associated to the R.E.L. Telescope, Observing, Sniper's is seldom displayed in the lowest functioning position with the articulated centre post in the collapsed position.

Note the use of cork to line spring tensioned claws to fit the telescope body. The last image displays the stand with the legs in the highest position.

Information

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[Badger]

Associated MKL entry ...

1944 Canadian Telescope, Observing, Sniper's Cmk1

(Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge)

(Click PIC to Enlarge)(Click PIC to Enlarge)

Regards,
Doug

[Peter Laidler]

This stand looks to me like a great example of what Mikhail was talking about when he said at an Engineers Conference. '............it's easy to make things complicated. The difficulty is making complicated things easy'. I wish I'd invented a) that saying and b) his rifle.

If I had one of these stands, I'd take a few seconds to walk over to the sniper division and ask a few instructors and budding snipers what THEY thought if it. It'd only take a few seconds because they don't mince words. I can imagine their choice of words - they're ringing in my tender Officer ears already................ Are you of the same opinion Tankie...... What about you Skippy?

[breakeyp]

Peter, I have been thinking about this great idea. A shovel with a hole in it. The soldier puts the handle in the ground, gets behind the blade and fires through the hole. Instant protection! Wait a minute, I think the Candadians did that in 1914. Maybe it is time for it to come in again. best, p.

[Warren]

You are not going to believe this, but the shovel with a hole in it used as a shield was a Canadian WW I invention. Can you imagine a bullet strike on the shovel with you behind it. Not a nice thought!!! Killed by a bullet or gutted by a flying shovel blade.

[Surpmil]

I'll have to respectfully disagree there Peter. Having had one, I'd say that if a man can't use that tripod he shouldn't be trusted with a rifle. It's a well made and well thought out piece of equipment, also light and folds down to a very small size. A telescope can be laid accurately on a target and kept there, or traversed smoothly along a plane from side to side.

They did 20 odd years in Canadian service anyway. Maybe we're just kinder and gentler!

I think Clive Law reproduced the UK trials results in "Without Warning". The REL TOS left the TSR in the dust.

Nuff said.

[Peter Laidler]

Ah, yes Surpmil but as I said earlier, snipers don't just arrive at the place they're going to shoot from by some sort of magic........ they have to stalk AND carry this can and scope and assemble it. One wag on the sniper div said to me some time ago that the snipers kit must be as robust as the sniper. Such kit as the No4, the L42 and the L96 are good examples. What does the stand achieve that a grassy dusty bank or old wardrobe in a derelict house wouldn't?

I take the point entirely that the Canadian sniper scope might have out performed the old Scout Reg scope and served in the Canadian military for some 20 years. This proves its worth of course. But compare that against the Sct Reg Scope that STILL in limited use in the UK Military. I know I'm slightly biased, but that is REAL longevity

[Warren]

If you ever see a Dennison smock with an additional pocket sewn into the inside of the smock about 5 inches by 10 inches....that is what it was for. The tripod. A number of the REL TOS scopes were issued in Korea and sewing the pocket in the smock was almost standard procedure.

[AX201201]

Where is that stitching Mr. WW?

Ignore the open flap P-38 and other silly belt carried accoutrements. The second image is Rifleman J.J. Showers, Queen's Own Rifles of Canada, while training in the U.K..
Photos credit of Archives Canada.

[Surpmil]

Why they were retired I don’t know Peter. Not because there was anything particularly better or because they weren’t serviceable. Probably some desk type in Ottawa just thought 20 years plus was long enough and what was to replace them wasn’t his concern. (Edit: I see "Without Warning" says the sniper sections were dissolved sometime in the late 50s or early 60s; there is no clear date given, as it was felt there was no place for them in the "mechanized army", until they were revived in 1971.)

What did replace the TOS in the 70s was a Bushnell Spacemaster with no sunshade, a ridiculously minimal tripod with three nonadjustable stick legs like the old wooden No21 stands, made for birders and rifle club ranges, replete with chromed surfaces etc. But according to the DND bureaucracy, that was much better because it was new commercial production and they could buy parts etc. No denying the Spacemaster has better optics of course, but they could have had Ernst Leitz Canada (ELCAN) replace or refurbish the optics in the TOS if they wanted to.

ELCAN produced two or three experimental 80mm telescopes around the time they were producing the 7x50 binoculars for the Canadian Forces. They have a rather military look about them, but of course they don't appear to have sunshades or a proper tripod, unless the one in the photo below is not the original; which is quite possible. I can't recall if they were single-draw refractors like the TOS or reflectors, but the "loose-tight" ring suggests single draw to me.

Ironically the British Army would probably have been using the TOS yet if it hadn’t been conveniently ruled out of UK consideration in April 1945 by a statement that telescopes were no longer going to be issued to snipers, only binoculars. A policy that seems to have been forgotten after REL were hurried into dissolution after 1945.

Why the TSR is still around I don’t know. It's so utterly obsolete it's embarrassing. I’m guessing the snipers just buy what they want out of their own pockets and be done with it?