I was toying with $1,000.00..

[Mike Haas]

I've been watching this one since it first popped up the auction site. Actually exchanged emails between British and NZ Museums re the stock markings. I essentinally determined marking were likely (repeat likely) legit.

I also requested additional photos (closeups) but no response. A request for a 3 day "No Shoot - No Disassembly" was replied to in a somewhat tepid "Maybe" response from the seller.

I am not "Flaming" the seller in any way. Based on the info above I was prepared to bid $1,000.00 for the rifle. The final bid was somewhat higher and I'm happy for the seller & winning bidder

My budget was what it was based on the info I had on the auction and responses received from the seller.

Nevertheless..a very interesting rifle IMO..

U.S. Remington Model 1903 : Bolt Action Rifles at GunBroker.com

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Chuckindenver]

this wll make you even more sick..about 10 years ago, a guy walked into the Colorardo Gun Collectors gunshow, with one in the plastic bag, redstripe, ect..he wanted 400.00
said they made hime open the bag in security..sheesh..yes., i went up and gave security a what for..
sad to say, at the time, i had waaaay to many 1903,s and passed on the rifle, said he had a few more new in the plastic bags at home, all just like it,,Remingtons, Redstripes ect..10 years ago,.they werent as hot as they are now...

[Rick the Librarian]

The bidding stayed in the $700-750 range for several days and raised my interest. However, I already have a Red Star with no grasping grooves and I have other interests (and not much money).

The rifle on the auction was one of those sold through the Red Star gunshop and was one of those rifles discussed in the article that John Beard and I wrote a few years ago. It was one of the 200 imported to this country in the mid-1950s and has no import markings. At $1552.00 it was still a good deal. Had it stayed in the $750-1000 range it would have been a steal!!

[Mike Haas]

The bidding stayed in the $700-750 range for several days and raised my interest. However, I already have a Red Star with no grasping grooves and I have other interests (and not much money).

The rifle on the auction was one of those sold through the Red Star gunshop and was one of those rifles discussed in the article that John Beard and I wrote a few years ago. It was one of the 200 imported to this country in the mid-1950s and has no import markings. At $1552.00 it was still a good deal. Had it stayed in the $750-1000 range it would have been a steal!!

When I first saw the Auction Ad I was immediately interested!! For the last 4 months I've been researching the various NZ stock markings which of course required detailed reading of the various links to the Red Star Rifles articles posted on the internet.
While I was aware of the article you and JB published I simply didn't have time to obtain that during the auction period. I was aware that there was a serial # list of some of the "Red Star Rifles- If not most" but again time wasn't on my side to do neglected research.

While I had a strong suspicion that this rifle was an early L/L 1903 Remington sent to Britain I had reservations for the following reasons. Again ....I'll repeat that my commentary is not a "Flame" towards the Auction Seller. What I'm about to say is simply to explain why I wasn't prepared to bid more than $1,000.00.

1 - The auction pictures were inadquate in clarity and number.Had I had a response for the extra picutures I requested I'd have had a better feeling about bidding higher than the winning bid.

2 - I sent an email requesting info on barrel condition: the answer I received was "bright & shiney".

3 - Another issue that arose that was actually included in the auction photos. That being the left/side buttstock stamp.."BR" My research via NZ and Britain indicates the "BR" stamp indicates "Birmingham Repair" AKA "BSA" in Britain. This struck me as somewhat significant in that I hadn't read anything about "Red Star" rifles as having such a mark. My reading being these 1903 Remingtons were unmolested in Britain. Perhaps I missed that information

4 - Had I been able to confirm prior to the conclusion of the auction that the rifle; as stated by RTL was a documented Red Star rifle, the final price would have been higher than $1,552.00.

I'll again repeat!!..this is not a "Flame" towards the Seller. It's just an explanation of my thought process throughout the auction. I wish now I had followed my instinct!

Regards

[Rick the Librarian]

I know what you mean, Mike - when you're talking lots of money, you have to be careful. Bill Hansen was the one who did the initial research on these rifles about 12-13 years ago, and had a chance to look at those which (in 1999) still hadn't sold. He did get the serial numbers of those that Red Star did sell and published the list as part of his article in Martial Arms Collector Magazine in 1999. I have a data base with the serial numbers for 127 of the 200 that were imported. 36 of them still remain in cases, unopened, held by the nephew of the original owner, so, actually, about 3/4 are "spoken for". As I said, the one for sale was one of the 60 that were sold through Red Star in 1999.

The nephew also has all the paperwork, conclusively showing that they were all imported from the UK and did not get sent to New Zealand. I examined about 50 of them in 2008 and none had any New Zealand markings, nor import marks.

[Texag45]

The seller says the letters on the left side buttstock are "E R" not "B R." I thought they were "E R," ....it is hard to tell from the photos, but I'll bet Rick is right about the "B.R." I asked the seller about these letters and he said he had no idea what they represented. I've never seen them on any of the "Red Stars" before and this bothered me. The rifle is listed as being in Utah and the seller said that the rifle came from someone who was now deceased, but who had worked in California in the past. I don't think there is any question but that it is one of the Levin rifles purchased from the "Red Star," but something about this one bothered me....maybe the lack of good quality photos and a lack of info on the rifle's history. Maybe the seller just didn't know exactly what he had. At any rate, if it is totally legit the purchaser got a very good deal.

[arkshooter]

What is the significance of NZ > D on the stock. I assume it means New Zealand Defense. I own one (Remington 03) so marked but it has no import marks on it. Serial #s144XXX. Also does not have a red stripe around the forearm. It does not look as if it was ever issued.

[Mike Haas]

The seller says the letters on the left side buttstock are "E R" not "B R." I thought they were "E R," ....it is hard to tell from the photos, but I'll bet Rick is right about the "B.R." I asked the seller about these letters and he said he had no idea what they represented. I've never seen them on any of the "Red Stars" before and this bothered me. The rifle is listed as being in Utah and the seller said that the rifle came from someone who was now deceased, but who had worked in California in the past. I don't think there is any question but that it is one of the Levin rifles purchased from the "Red Star," but something about this one bothered me....maybe the lack of good quality photos and a lack of info on the rifle's history. Maybe the seller just didn't know exactly what he had. At any rate, if it is totally legit the purchaser got a very good deal.

I believe the L/S stock mark is "BR"..Not "ER"..the stock marking "ER" does not exist in the era research that I have found thus far?..Since Rick (RTL) positively states this that this rifle serial # was a "Red Star" rifle that marking would be consistant in at least to the time frame. Just why this stock would have been stamped with "BR" ( which stands for Birmingham Repair {BSA}..) is beyond my capabilty to explain to date. Perhaps this particuliar rifle had an issue and then found it's way into the "Red Star" shipping crates. Beats me..but unless the "BR" stamp was applied by other than the British I tend to believe that the stamping is legit.

[Mike Haas]

What is the significance of NZ > D on the stock. I assume it means New Zealand Defense. I own one (Remington 03) so marked but it has no import marks on it. Serial #s144XXX. Also does not have a red stripe around the forearm. It does not look as if it was ever issued.

Did you make a couple of "typo" errors?..I would at least have to have the first five actual #'s of your serial # to answer your question with any reasonable chance of making a close guesstimate

The other possible typo is your description of your stock marking. You posted NZ>D. My research indicates that doesn't exist unless it's a mis-strike.

There are two known examples (to me) of NZ stock stamps. The first being NZ^D and its the early to perhaps mid 1942. These stamps were usually placed on the left side butt stock. The stamping stood for New Zealand (Home) Defense.

The later stamped marking was N^Z usually placed on the right side buttstock. Usally seen on later L/L stocks sent to New Zealand. Again just representing the the New Zealand (Home) Defense, just shortened.

THE .. ^ .. is accutally a NZ Commanwealth marking which is referred to a a "Broad Arrow"; seperate and distinct from Britain/British markings. The "Broad Arrow" (^) is always vertical..not sideways..(>).

Both of the stamped markings may be followed by a number, usually indicative of a "rack number". NZ rifles did not have a "Red Band" such as did the British L/L's nor do I I have any info that indicates that any other Commonwealth Countrys use the "Red Band".

HTH..

[sakorick]

I own SN 21131, 42-1, GG RLB stock. Here is the NZ mark, Right side rear of stock. Regards, Rick.