Is It Safe To

[tmark]

fire (shoot, discharge) an 1898 Krag in generally good condition using factory Krag ammo? I was told the Krags have the same metal treatment as LSN 1903s and so some people are afraid to shoot their Krags.

Does anyone regularly shoot their Krags? Does the Krag have a safety lug?

If anyone reloads, what powder/bullet/primer combo works well for you?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[John from the Cereal City]

I have shot a number of Krag rifles & carbines using factory loads. As I understand, the Ammo manufacturer's factory loads are considered "safe" to shoot in original arms.

Make sure that the chamber has not been bored out-some have been found that way. Also check the headspace before firing. Examine the bolt lug for cracks. If everything checks out OK then the rifle should be safe to shoot.

I know several people that have handloaded for their rifles with out problems. Use the loading tables & start below the published settings then work up to an accurate load.

[sdkrag]

I have fired every Krag that I have owned over the last 30 years including my 1892 Model. Follow John's advice on inspecting the firearm and have fun. I use an old Pacific and Lyman manuals to reload. I have recently shot quite a few reloads and I really prefer to use 220 gr. bullets. Most factory stuff is 180 gr. and fmj 220's are about impossible to find. I used Hornaday 220 RNSP and they shot great. Use a little common sense and you will have a blast. BTW I have also shot deer with my Krags, and I have owned more than 25 over the years. I only have found one with cracked lugs on the bolt. That's what happens when you don't use common sense when reloading.

[Alfred]

Be sure of the bore condition.
Krag ammo once used Cupro-Nickel or Nickel coated bullets.

I've only owned one Krag, a Carbine that was in very good condition on the outside and with perfect action, but the bore turned out to be completely eaten away under a thick layer of Cupro Nickel fouling, pits the size of BBs.

I tried to find a replacement barrel but none were to be had back then. In the nineties a limited run of reproduction barrels were available but I'd long since traded the Krag off to a collector who only wanted it as a non shooter.

Thats one trade I'll always regret, though money wise I came out okay. The original barrel was non salvagable so I couldn't use the rifle without destroying what collector value it had by rebarreling or re lining it.

Cupro-Nickel can be distributed so evenly that it looks like a slick perfect bore, but underneath corrosive primer salts can have been at work for decades. Woith mine the nickel had already begun to peel away from the bottom of the grooves in strips, otherwise I might have tried firing it and blown it up.

I'd check Hatcher's note book on the metalurgy, I don't think it was the same as the low number Springfields, and I've never heard of the receivers failing, only cracked or set back lugs of the bolts.
This only happened when the Army tried to get a few more FPS by uping the pressure from 40,000 psi to 43,000 psi. Most rifles had no problem but enough bolts were damaged by the new load that the arsenal once had a policy of replacing damaged bolts free of charge to civilian buyers of surplus Krags.

As with any antique rifle its best to have it checked out throughly and test fired remotely before firing from the shoulder.

There are plenty of handloads that give good performance while remaining well below the 40,000 psi limit.
Bullet jackets of Krag ammo were thin compared to '06 bullet jackets so that might be a factor. Light loads using gas checked cast bullets are probably the best bet till you know just how well the rifle will hold up. If no problems show up you can up the ante to full power jacketed bullets later on.


PS
There were hundreds of Krag rifles and carbines returned from movie prop warehouses and sold by the CMP.
Some of these and some drill or cadet rifles had the chamber bored out to take a theatrical blank, and de-mill the chamber at the same time.
The Krag was a common prop rifle for the old B&W epics like Gunga Din and other films set in the late 19th century.

[Bill H]

I shoot my Krags, and I also ocassionally shoot LN 03s, careful attention paid to the ammo.

It is true that the Krag heat treatment is similiar to the LN 03, but apparently there is no published history of Krag receiver failures.

I usually use 180 grain round nose soft points, and load to about the same velocity as the original 220 grain loads. Every Krag i have shot with this load shoots very well.

I am fortunate to have found a supply of 220 grain round nose with gilding metal jackets, pulled from WWII vintage Remington Krag ammo, but since the 180 grain bullets shoot so well, have not fired very many of the 220 grain bullets.

[Dave]

The basic heat treatment of low number 03 was not at fault, it was "burned steel". Left too long in the furnace I guess. It was done by men who were "experts" at the job and pulled it out when it "looked right" or some such thing. Not a scentific way to do it. (See Hatcher). There were only about 25 or so documented failures of these rifles. And the reciever could not be reheat treated. So they were merely stored at the back or given to other counties, like China.

[kragluver]

The Krag metalurgy was the same as the LN '03s. The reason you don't hear about Krag's blowing up is that the Krag cartridge head is fully supported by the receiver and bolt. The Mauser action leaves the last 1/4" or so of the bottom of the cartridge head unsupported. An overload, or case failure allows high pressure gas directly into the receiver; whereas in the Krag, the chamber walls and bolt contain the failure. I believe Hatcher's Notebook describes this well. BTW - PO Ackley did some destructive testing on Krag receivers back in the day. The results surprised him as to how well the receivers held up. He found no "dangerous" failure mechanisms as there are with some other receiver designs. All that said, stay within the loading recommendations for the Krag cartridge. These rifles are not something to play hotrod with.

[jon_norstog]

Tmark,

I've been loading Krag ammo and shooting Krags for years. Never a problem. It's a great hunting and target round. I've never seen a load in a manual that came close to being dangerous, that includes max loads. The manuals are really conservative when it comes to the 30-40.

One nice thing about the Krag is between its velocity limitations and the split receiver, you are never tempted to put a scope on it. Iron sights are just fine for hunting at the Krag's effective range. That saves a pound right there.

good luck, have fun.

jn

[Jim K]

The metal and heat treatment of the Krag was the same as that of the SHT M1903; it was simply carried over from the old rifle production to the new.

A couple of factors reduce the chance of a Krag action failing. One has been mentioned, the fully enclosed case head possible with a rimmed cartridge. Another is that the Krag operates at much lower pressures, and yet another is that Krags were not made under the kind of wartime pressure in effect at Springfield in the 1917-1918 time frame.

I have fired many Krags, and only saw one blow. The case we removed from the chamber had the headstamp of a German 7.9 s.S round. We never learned how the shooter managed to get the round into the chamber, or if he somehow resized the case. But the rifle let go, breaking the single locking lug and spreading and cracking the receiver.

Yes, the Krag does have a safety lug, the rear of the guide rib. On the Norwegian and Danish Krags, that lug bears so the rifle is a much stronger dual lug system. But on the U.S. Krag, that lug (for reasons unknown to me) was made to not bear and act only as a safety lug in case the front lug failed.

Jim

[Alfred]

The metal and heat treatment of the Krag was the same as that of the SHT M1903; it was simply carried over from the old rifle production to the new.

A couple of factors reduce the chance of a Krag action failing. One has been mentioned, the fully enclosed case head possible with a rimmed cartridge. Another is that the Krag operates at much lower pressures, and yet another is that Krags were not made under the kind of wartime pressure in effect at Springfield in the 1917-1918 time frame.

I have fired many Krags, and only saw one blow. The case we removed from the chamber had the headstamp of a German 7.9 s.S round. We never learned how the shooter managed to get the round into the chamber, or if he somehow resized the case. But the rifle let go, breaking the single locking lug and spreading and cracking the receiver.

Yes, the Krag does have a safety lug, the rear of the guide rib. On the Norwegian and Danish Krags, that lug bears so the rifle is a much stronger dual lug system. But on the U.S. Krag, that lug (for reasons unknown to me) was made to not bear and act only as a safety lug in case the front lug failed.

Jim

There were some European Krags chambered for the 7.92 cartridge by the Germans. I don't know if any were issued and the project is said to have been a failure, but I've read posts on European forums by owners of Krag sporters that were in 7.92, probably gunsmithed conversions or put together with leftover barrels from the German project.
Some were saying the rifles were unsafe while others were saying they were safe. Of course European sporting ammo for the 7.92X57s and earlier J bore 8mm can be obtained in lighter pressure loadings that are for use in rifles like the Gew 1888.

I've fired some mixed headstamp 7.92 in a Persian carbine I once owned and one round rocked me back on one heel and spun me 180 degrees, the muzzle blast was so fierce I thought the carbine had exploded, a long duration tracer flare came out of the clay bank behind the target so bright I had after images and can't say whether it was green or purple. This had to have been a special heavy loading for aircraft MGs.
A round like that could destroy most rifles less sturdy than a Mauser 98 action, and probably some 98's.

Theres also the Danish 8X58R. If an owner thought it was an 8mm mauser caliber rifle and managed to chamber a mauser cartridge in the much larger diameter chamber a blow out is the likely result.