AIM Surplus 03A4 clones

[mack]

I received, as did many of you probably, an email from AIM Surplus over the weekend and in it I found clone 03A4 rifles that had what they advertised as new M73B1 scopes.

Two questions arise:

1) Who is building these rifles. They advertise original parts on old receivers with new wood and scopes.

2) Who is making the scopes and are these good reproductions that could be used on clones for re-enactment rifles or are they just pure junk?

Just a couple of questions for the experts, if no one minds.

Information

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[lapensek]

Mack:
could be the Gibbs rifles that have started to appear. Saw one last week, and it really looks nice. It is built on an A3 reciever and the the scope is new made with a new stock and new manufactured barrel. Looks really nice.

Ken

[JGaynor]

I received, as did many of you probably, an email from AIM Surplus over the weekend and in it I found clone 03A4 rifles that had what they advertised as new M73B1 scopes.

Two questions arise:

1) Who is building these rifles. They advertise original parts on old receivers with new wood and scopes.

2) Who is making the scopes and are these good reproductions that could be used on clones for re-enactment rifles or are they just pure junk?

Just a couple of questions for the experts, if no one minds.

1. I don't think they (Gibbs) is advertising that they are using original parts. In addition to the stock, barrel and scope the scope base and bolt are reproductions as well. (The bolt may have been modified from an original 03-A3 bolt.) The receiver and possibly some of the small parts atre likely the only original pieces.

2. I think its too soon to tell about the long term durability of the scopes.

Regards,

JIm

[Chuckindenver]

i saw and held 2 repro A4,s made by gibbs, guy selling them was pretty proud of them, and how cool he thought they were.
and heres my take..in one word??JUNK.
in many words.
receivers, recovered drill rifles, not an issue, but they should be advertised as such,
bases, same maker as the China made Redfield base being sold in the plastic bubble packs.
rings..same thing made in China, and they look it, they dont fit right.
bolts? pooo poo, they could have done a better job.
stocks? they look ok, not bad, not outstanding.
barrels? they are OK, dont like the cheesy GIBBS mark on the end.
scopes??not bad, still China made, and marked as such, better then the rest of the rig.
fit and finish??fair fit, poor finish,, is likely painted and not a phosphate like it should, done to save money and hide the weld marks on the receiver.
sling. poo poo, bad reproduction, keepers wont stay in place, could have done a better job.
all in all, the price they are asking is fair, would i want one? no.
dont think id take one to the range. safe? maybe. accuate? doubt it.
for a guy that doesnt want to spend the buck on a real one, ok.
for the guy that doesnt want or know how to put one together, ok.
i say a better job could have been done..
funny thing.
the seller offered some Redfield bases on the table, to fix the bad ones on the rifle.
so i commented. they are the same base, minus the R mark, he argued, no they are made in the USA,
so i picked one up, turn it around, and had him read to me what it said..
MADE IN CHINA..
hmmmmm, could i be wrong???

[Lancebear]

Chuck,

Bought the last copy of Guns & Ammo's latest surplus magazine Friday evening from the local newstand.

The Gibbs rifle is on the cover and the first article is about it, written by Garry James. A firearms expert that I respect, remember "Tales of The Gun". Watched every episode...more than once. He has an amazing collection and had a very good short lived magazine a while ago featuring many original antique firearms and extras.

Well the article is several pages long and tells the story of the 03A4 and only really gets to the real deal about the Gibbs rifles in the last few paragraphs.

A shoot with amazing results after dialing in the rifle. It is mentioned that Gibbs reclaimed Remington receivers etc. And the fact that Pedersoli made the four groove barrels. And the hardwood stock is walnut "Finished". Chinese mystery wood.

Guess Gibbs snafued him or maybe on the hook along with Guns & Ammo? Don't waste your ten bucks on this book...they ran outa' ideas and have several articles about obscure, to us, antique European arms...could hardly read it. Even used two large articles from Garry's old magazine.

Think the crew here could do a hundred page magazine just on surplus '03's and people would eat it up.

Chinese Junk...it's not just a ship anymore.

Death to Chinese cr%p, and the lying that goes along with it,

Lancebear

[Calif-Steve]

Gibbs got a pile of drill rifle parts in a swap. Or so the story goes. The whole gun is being parted overseas and Gibbs is assembling them in the USA. If you like Chinese scopes and scrap/drill parts go for it. I'll pass, sorry.

[ralfus]

The one that I saw at the NRA convention was garbage. I would rather put a fake together from a sporterized rifle and a civilian 330 then waste money on the Gibbs rifle. I have seen airsoft rifles at gunshows that look more authentic.

[goo]

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/1903a4.jpg
...
Item#1903A4
US model M1903A4 Springfield bolt action 30.06 Rifles. These Rifles are built using original Remington-made World War II M1903A3 actions and turned-down bolts. These fine Rifles feature newly manufactured 4-groove barrels identical to the originals. Each receiver is carefully drilled and tapped using replicas of the original "Redfield" rings and mounts and an exact copy of the M73B1 scope, used on the 1st model M1903A4's. Each barreled action has the original military parkerized finish with beautiful walnut stock furniture, again, identical to the originals.
Each includes a replica of the M1907 U.S. issued leather sling and OD Green canvas carrying case. Not just exceptional in looks and finish, each gun is made to hold to the accuracy standards of the U.S. Military during World War II. These Rifles are currently in very high demand and we have a limited supply, so order while you can!

...
AIM New Rifles! New Rifles!
...
re:
"Not just exceptional in looks and finish, each gun is made to hold to the accuracy standards of the U.S. Military during World War II. "

i don't think the government did anything to make o3a4's any more accurate than 03a3's. a 4 groove barrel was not an accuracy improvement as far as i know.
..
i would assume headspace has been checked and would expect them to shoot about 4.0 MOA or so with plain vanilla milsurp 30-06.
...

[JGaynor]

[QUOTE=goo;73721re:
"Not just exceptional in looks and finish, each gun is made to hold to the accuracy standards of the U.S. Military during World War II. "

i don't think the government did anything to make o3a4's any more accurate than 03a3's. a 4 groove barrel was not an accuracy improvement as far as i know.
..
i would assume headspace has been checked and would expect them to shoot about 4.0 MOA or so with plain vanilla milsurp 30-06.
...[/QUOTE]

It has been reliably reported that Remington selected A4 barrels for internal dimensional tolerance. In fact most A4's were ultimately assembled with two groove barrels.

If you are interested in a real "consumer report" driving test from somebody who bought one of these check out the threads in Gunboards from about July 18. The thread goes on forever but the principal defect noted was that the "redfield" base had not been snugged down. So head space may have been checked but sure as heck nobody fired them for accuracy (like they did with the real thing).

Regards,

Jim
Jim

[mack]

First, thanks to all who replied with your sincere and carefully thought-out responses. This is the kind of thread I would expect from the Springfield Board and I received good responses from all of you.

I didn't want or need some place to spend money on a repro rifle, but I was curious about anyone who had seen one of these rifles as they will certainly be entering the market in response to the demand for 03A4 rifles. Unfortunately, they will likely be touted as originals to the less-than-discerning buyers who aren't careful in their purchases.

I was happy to see ChuckinDenver's observations about quality and fit and finish. Thank you for your taking your time to relay your thoughts on these rifles. Your observations are significant in light of your particular skills and are about what I expected, as repro rifles are often meant to be seen from a distance and not shot or handled.

Call me a coward or whatever you like, but I am deathly afraid of reclaimed receivers from Drill Rifles. I am sure that many good rifles have been made in drill pieces, but some, I fear, went that way because someone knew they were bad or problem rifles and sent them to conversion for a reason that we will never know. I look over all 03A3's I see for sale and put the drill pieces back on the shelf or the table without comment. They won't be going home with me. Call me crazy, if you like, but......

I have never been a fan of Gibbs rifles and this is simply another example of one of their continuing list of conversions that leave me wondering why I would spend my money for that? Maybe some are good, but they don't hold much interest to me. Their 45-70 Enfields may be good, but the prices rivaled buying a Marlin (almost) in the same caliber.

Well, enough of my ranting, but, seriously, thanks to all who responded. Another issue I am afraid we have not heard the last of by any means though. 'Night all!