Serial number "relocated"

[Jeff L]

I didn't think that modifying serial numbers was legal. Take a look.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=138241033

-Jeff L

Information

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[Liam]

I don't see ANYTHING on that receiver to have been "relocated."

[Michael Petrov]

The serial number only mattered after 1968. Before then it was common for a custom gunmaker to remove all markings from a 1903 including the serial number. Some firms relocated the number to the bottom of the action or barrel where it would be covered by wood.

[Johnny Peppers]

Actually the Federal Firearms Act of 1938 covered obliterated or altered serial numbers. It was largely ignored at the time unless a firearm with an obliterated serial number was used in a crime.

The Federal Firearms Act[17] became law with the approval of President Roosevelt on June 30th, 1938. It went into effect on July 30th with the purpose of regulating interstate commerce in firearms and consequently curbing the possession of such weapons by criminals. The, Act provides for the licensing of all manufacturers and dealers in the interstate commerce of firearms. Criminals are banned from either receiving or sending firearms in interstate or foreign com- [Page 439] merce. Stolen firearms and those with obliterated serial numbers are barred from such commerce. The Act has nine sections but for purposes of clarity and brevity shall be treated under three divisions: definitions, prohibitions., and administration.

Section 902i forbids the shipping, transporting, or knowingly receiving, in interstate or foreign commerce, of any firearm from which the manufacturer's serial number has been removed, obliterated or altered, "and the possession of any such firearm shall be presumptive evidence that such firearm was transported, shipped, or received, as the case may be, by the possessor in violation of this Act."[30] It is clear that the presumption applies only to the instant subdivision for only under this section is there any ban against such firearm.

[Chuckindenver]

someplace, it says, a gunsmith may remove the serial number and replace it, as long as its not changed, for repair, or refinish.
unless something has changed.

[Jeff L]

chuck,

Does that mean it has to go back in the same place or can it be "relocated" per said rifle?

thanks

-Jeff L

[Vi Shooter]

Going by what I remember from looking into this in the past, replacement SN's have to go in a conspicuous location where it isn't easily removed, be at least .003" deep and at least 1/16" tall.

Even a stolen gun that has had its SN removed can have it replaced or a new one assigned by the ATF. The picture below (found on SigForum) is of a recovered P220 (stolen from a gun store) that had an ATF assigned SN applied. Note the "ATF" prefix to the number.

[Emri]

chuck,

Does that mean it has to go back in the same place or can it be "relocated" per said rifle?

thanks

-Jeff L

You can re-stamp, (not engrave!), the serial number as chuck stated, but it MUST be in a different place. Even if you can't see the original, it can be brought back up using certain chemicals and techniques. I've done it many times. (re-stamp during re-finishing, not bring up old numbers)

Once, when an old pistol with no number was present, I contacted the local ATF office for guidance. Their reply was "just put a number on it." "what number" I asked? "It doesn't matter, as long as it has a number." It was not a stolen gun like the one VI shooter showed.

I have also refused to work on firearms where the serial number was purposely defaced in an attempt to decieve or mis-lead. THAT is definitely a no-no with ATF.

FWIW,

Emri

[Vi Shooter]

Once, when an old pistol with no number was present, I contacted the local ATF office for guidance. Their reply was "just put a number on it." "what number" I asked? "It doesn't matter, as long as it has a number." It was not a stolen gun like the one VI shooter showed.

I'll bet that agent's supervisor would have given a different answer. Regs require the number to be unique. Manufacturers register blocks of SN's with the ATF these days to ensure lack of duplicates.

When I've called the ATF for advice, if the agent gives me an answer I think is wrong, I ask him to verify it with his super (or an agent too senior to get stuck on phone duty). The answer usually changes.

Example: I acquired from an estate a Rem 870 with spare barrels that included a riot barrel with a soldered-on extension that brought it up to the legal minimum of 18". I had read that hard soldering an extension on a too-short shotgun barrel could return it to legal status while a soft solder extension wouldn't. So I called the ATF and described my acquisition and asked my question. The junior agent who answered the phone said that once a barrel was cut too short nothing could make it legal again. I had him check with his super and he then confirmed that the hard soldering was a legal way to restore a short barrel (much to his stated surprise).

[Donzi]

Just out of curiosity, how does Century International's penchant for stamping entirely new s/ns on imported wepons figure into this?
Donzi